Need advice on PCB manufacturers

wwatson

wwatson

Well-known member
Finally started learning KiCad. I wanted to create a small VGA DAC adapter board for use with @jmarsh FlexIo VGA driver found here and with library I created for using it found on my GitHub. I have everything ready including the board setup (I hope) and it passes the DRC checks. I just need advice on the easiest , cheapest and quickest PCB fab company to use. I was looking at few online but just not sure which would be the best. Also the fewest prototype boards required would be best...

Any advice is welcome...

Thanks
 
cheapest and quickest are mutually incompatible I'm afraid. OSHPark are worth a look for convenience and price, their web portal parses the files and shows you what you'll get visually which is handy.
 
MarkT said:
cheapest and quickest are mutually incompatible I'm afraid. OSHPark are worth a look for convenience and price, their web portal parses the files and shows you what you'll get visually which is handy.
Click to expand...
That was quick:) I had looked at OHSPark first. I will try it out.
Thanks
 
I use JLCPCB, I normally can expect to receive boards which include assembly in a week using Fedex.
They have a minimum board count of 5.
Incidentally any size up to 10cm X 10cm is the same price, so if your board is less than 10x10 you could squeeze another design on the same substrate and it would cost you nothing.
 
I second the recommendation for OshPark. I have ordered a number of PCBs from them, and I have never had any problems that could be attributed to the manufacturing process. I've also used a few boards from JLCPCB (one that I created/originated, and a couple that fellow amateur radio club members have created/originated). Our mutual experience is that these boards from JLCPCB were more likely to experience failures (outright manufacturing mistakes in some cases, as well as being more susceptible to breaks/intermittents when subjected to board flexing and/or repeated solder/desolder cycles). There are a scattering of claims that JLCPCB boards may also be contaminated with heavy metals, whereas the OshPark boards have to meet stricter US standards in this regard. I don't mean to completely diss JLCPCB. Rather my intent is to emphasize the superior quality of the boards from OshPark. Yes, it may take a little longer to get your boards, and yes, you will very likely pay more, but in my firsthand experience, both are worth the difference in quality/reliability when using OshPark boards.

Mark J Culross
KD5RXT
 
BriComp said:
I use JLCPCB, I normally can expect to receive boards which include assembly in a week using Fedex.
They have a minimum board count of 5.
Incidentally any size up to 10cm X 10cm is the same price, so if your board is less than 10x10 you could squeeze another design on the same substrate and it would cost you nothing.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply. I will check that out...
 
kd5rxt-mark said:
I second the recommendation for OshPark. I have ordered a number of PCBs from them, and I have never had any problems that could be attributed to the manufacturing process. I've also used a few boards from JLCPCB (one that I created/originated, and a couple that fellow amateur radio club members have created/originated). Our mutual experience is that these boards from JLCPCB were more likely to experience failures (outright manufacturing mistakes in some cases, as well as being more susceptible to breaks/intermittents when subjected to board flexing and/or repeated solder/desolder cycles). There are a scattering of claims that JLCPCB boards may also be contaminated with heavy metals, whereas the OshPark boards have to meet stricter US standards in this regard. I don't mean to completely diss JLCPCB. Rather my intent is to emphasize the superior quality of the boards from OshPark. Yes, it may take a little longer to get your boards, and yes, you will very likely pay more, but in my firsthand experience, both are worth the difference in quality/reliability when using OshPark boards.

Mark J Culross
KD5RXT
Click to expand...
I will most likely be cycling resistors for testing so I'll need to take that into consideration...
 
I usually use OSHPark (USA) for relatively small boards or JLCPCB (China) for larger boards or when I need more than 1 or 2.

Something to consider is the surface finish. ENIG is best, but expensive. Usually it's only really needed if you have QFN or BGA parts, because the surface is much flatter.

All OSHPark boards are ENIG, and a particularly high quality ENIG at that. JLCPCB defaults to low cost HASL, but you can get ENIG for an extra fee. I believe they're recently added an option to select thicker ENIG, which maybe is similar to OSHPark?
 
Thanks everybody for the advice. I did go with OSHPark. It was a little over 18 bucks for three boards and free shipping. The board is about 2x2 inches. This was my first attempt doing a board layout and it probably could be laid out better. Will play with that more latter. My main concern was getting the board setup in KiCad right so OSHPark could accept it and they did. I used Freerouting to autoroute the board and then checked the routing against the schematic several times to make sure it was correctly routed. Hopefully it is:unsure: Anything is better than this:
IMG_20240127_155352138-1.png

@PaulStoffregen - I did see the info about ENIG surface coating.
 
wwatson said:
The board is about 2x2 inches. This was my first attempt doing a board layout and it probably could be laid out better. Will play with that more latter. My main concern was getting the board setup in KiCad right so OSHPark could accept it and they did. I used Freerouting to autoroute the board and then checked the routing against the schematic several times to make sure it was correctly routed. Hopefully it is:unsure:
Click to expand...
My first board was hugely wasteful of space, poorly routed, and I could do a lot better now. The important thing though was that I did it, and it worked, and I learned stuff.

Autorouting tends to give poor results, KiCad makes manual routing simpler by guiding you.

Running an electrical rules check on your schematic, and then a design rules check on your board, automates much of the checking and will save you from some annoying mistakes.

OSH Park always gives good results, I have never had a problem with any of their boards. They also now have a stencil service.
 
Nantonos said:
My first board was hugely wasteful of space, poorly routed, and I could do a lot better now. The important thing though was that I did it, and it worked, and I learned stuff.

Autorouting tends to give poor results, KiCad makes manual routing simpler by guiding you.

Running an electrical rules check on your schematic, and then a design rules check on your board, automates much of the checking and will save you from some annoying mistakes.

OSH Park always gives good results, I have never had a problem with any of their boards. They also now have a stencil service.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the input. 14 resistors, 1 PCB mount female VGA connector and an edge connector probably does not constitute a 2x2 " board :D
 
I had been using PCBWay for everything up until recently when they dramatically increased their pricing on 4 layer boards.

A 100mm x 100mm 4 layer board from PCB Way is about 4 to 5 times the price of the same design from JLCPCB which I found incredible.

Quality from both has been great so far with many orders. Shipping costs (to Australia) have been the biggest issue to complain about.....
 
I want to thank everybody for the advice given. I chose OSHPark. Everything worked out without any problems. I just received my 3 boards and populated one of them (barely, shakey). Hooked it up and it works:D

Adapter.jpg


Mandelbrot.jpg


WindowTest.jpg


Thanks again for the help.
 
Looks good. Wondering about any suggestions for partially assembling a board. I have done a couple with PCBWay which has worked out OK:
But last time was about 2 years ago. With my current main MMOD test board: Where I had them do most of the SMD parts...
1707770507866.png

If my notes are correct I think it came out to about $125 for 5 of them...

Thinking about having them do a follow on one, with the DXL servo stuff, speaker, ... removed, but then add back the OV7670/75... 2x10 connector to play with some of the different cameras..

If I decide to pull the trigger. Current latest one I increased the size of the board to be length of 3.5" ILI9488 board. Similar for height except added a bit to allow camera to be plugged into the front. I actually put on two connectors, so can put on front or back... Still cleaning up;
1707770971810.png

Shown with 2.8" ILI9341...

1707771024767.png

I was thinking about the insert from bottom for the camera, but unless you had different versions, of camera, a 2 row pinout
would not work well. However did put on for ILI99341, as can then do stuff with it on either side. Where when on top it would stick out
the other end...

But wondering if there are other manufactures I should look at for just a couple of boards.
 
@KurtE - Is this the same board that you had made that supported the BuyDisplay 10.1" LCD? The display can be configured to use the 8080 interface and I know the MMod can be configured for 8080. I would be interested in one of these boards if all surface mount components are already mounted :D Also want buy one of the cameras to mess with...
 
wwatson said:
@KurtE - Is this the same board that you had made that supported the BuyDisplay 10.1" LCD? The display can be configured to use the 8080 interface and I know the MMod can be configured for 8080. I would be interested in one of these boards if all surface mount components are already mounted :D Also want buy one of the cameras to mess with...
Click to expand...
Sorry different board. That was one I did for R8875/76...

1707774073596.png

With the T4.1 and currently with storage chips with the other scocket...
 
Just a follow-up on my earlier recommendation for using OshPark. I recently ordered three more copies of my TeensyMIDIPolySynth (TMPS). Following that order, I received an e-mail from OshPark indicating that the panel containing my boards had suffered a manufacturing process error. As a result, I would only receive two of the three boards that I ordered. In addition, they indicated that they would submit my boards once again in the very next Super Swift panel for free, and that I would subsequently receive three more copies of my board following this manufacturing cycle. I really appreciate their good customer service !!

Mark J Culross
KD5RXT
 
kd5rxt-mark said:
Just a follow-up on my earlier recommendation for using OshPark. I recently ordered three more copies of my TeensyMIDIPolySynth (TMPS). Following that order, I received an e-mail from OshPark indicating that the panel containing my boards had suffered a manufacturing process error. As a result, I would only receive two of the three boards that I ordered. In addition, they indicated that they would submit my boards once again in the very next Super Swift panel for free, and that I would subsequently receive three more copies of my board following this manufacturing cycle. I really appreciate their good customer service !!

Mark J Culross
KD5RXT
Click to expand...
Yes, they have very good customer service. They kept in contact with me the whole time letting me know what was going on. All in all a confidence booster :D
Thanks for your input...

Edit: If anybody has a need or want for something like this I posted the zipped fab files here. This a is library I made based on @jmarsh VGA_Flexio_T4 driver.
 
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I was interested in trying Gerber Labs, but I noticed there's a really bad review and the web site is down now. Maybe these new startups are risky to buy from?
 
NewLinuxFan said:
I was interested in trying Gerber Labs, but I noticed there's a really bad review and the web site is down now. Maybe these new startups are risky to buy from?
Click to expand...
Had a very good experience with OSHPark. What's good for PJRC is good enough for me(y)
 
wwatson said:
Had a very good experience with OSHPark. What's good for PJRC is good enough for me(y)
Click to expand...
As mentioned before, for smaller boards, I use them. For larger boards I have used PCBWAY...
For example with the board I am looking to maybe do. I modified it slightly this morning as I found
the length of the board was something like 100.3mm. The board cost at OSHPARK is about $48 for 3
At PCBWay when the board was over 100mm ($22.07 + $20.04 DHL shipping) for 5 boards. But cutting back to 100mm the
cost is $5 (for 5 or 10 boards) plus the shipping 20.04. And for Fabrication only would have them usually within a week.
 
wwatson said:
Had a very good experience with OSHPark. What's good for PJRC is good enough for me(y)
Click to expand...
OSHPark is very user friendly with great quality. There is a wait time, less options, and they don't do assembly. 4PCB works for my higher volume and assembled boards, but the web site is quite confusing with no previews. I might try PCBway...
 
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