Is there a third Teensy 4.0 breakout board?
- Thread starter MichaelMeissner
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defragster
Senior Member+
Web page is here : www.trainer4edu.com/edubase_teensy/frdm_4236.html
Seems FRDM4236 turned off OSH board shares when I broke mine in case it was in the layout, and not back on yet?
Seems FRDM4236 turned off OSH board shares when I broke mine in case it was in the layout, and not back on yet?
I tested it today. The results are as follows:
1. It works at 912 MHz OK, no heat sink is needed, no fan is needed to cool the T4.
2. For 960 MHz, with a small USB fan to cool, it ran OK with or without a heat sink. Without a fan, it's frozen at 60 C even with a heat sink.
3. For 1GHz (996MHz), I need both fan and heat sink, after it ran more than 10 minutes, then I removed the heat sink, once I removed heat sink, it's frozen very quickly. Without a fan and a heat sink, it will only run 10 seconds or less before it's frozen. Don't try it unless you have a fan and a heat sink. Frozen at 1GHz may degrade the chip more quickly.
4. If you want to overclocking your T4 to have a fun, make sure to have a good air flow to pull off heat. This is a more efficient method to cool your circuits. A heat sink without air flow will still retain a lot of heat (almost every laptop has a fan built in!). If you make a product to sell, you better just follow the spec, run it at 600MHz, a little risk at 720MHz- 816MHz, it's still way faster than others. Or just wait for the T4.1.
For 960 MHz, without a fan, it stops when temp reaches around 60 C, the loglow's board with a heat sink can run at 60 C. There are many reasons can cause the difference, I don't know exactly. The easiest guesses are that the heat sink may be degraded after many times of putting on and taking off, or the chip is weaken after many times of overheating. If you really want to test 960Hz overclocking, I suggest that you test your T4 module with a heat sink working at 960MHz stand alone for a few hours before soldering it to the FRDM4236 board.
For 1 GHz, it stops around 43 C, so in 1G Hz operation, it needs to be cooling down more. It works for me with a fan and a Heat sink.
I will have all log files including 1 GHz overclocking to post later. There is no reason to run at 1GHz for your projects, it's too risky.
I don't think there is a problem in the PCB layout. the board does not have an active component, passive components hardly will fail. The sandwich board may add a little insulation, but it's insignificant. I will re-share it on Oshpark soon. It will take 2 weeks to get it from Oshpark, so I will make 5 kits of the new V3 with USB host ready by the end of next week for any one who would like to have it sooner, $4 + $3 shipping. Please contact trainer4edu@gmail.com.
@KurtE: I will reserve one for you. Thanks.
1. It works at 912 MHz OK, no heat sink is needed, no fan is needed to cool the T4.
2. For 960 MHz, with a small USB fan to cool, it ran OK with or without a heat sink. Without a fan, it's frozen at 60 C even with a heat sink.
3. For 1GHz (996MHz), I need both fan and heat sink, after it ran more than 10 minutes, then I removed the heat sink, once I removed heat sink, it's frozen very quickly. Without a fan and a heat sink, it will only run 10 seconds or less before it's frozen. Don't try it unless you have a fan and a heat sink. Frozen at 1GHz may degrade the chip more quickly.
4. If you want to overclocking your T4 to have a fun, make sure to have a good air flow to pull off heat. This is a more efficient method to cool your circuits. A heat sink without air flow will still retain a lot of heat (almost every laptop has a fan built in!). If you make a product to sell, you better just follow the spec, run it at 600MHz, a little risk at 720MHz- 816MHz, it's still way faster than others. Or just wait for the T4.1.
For 960 MHz, without a fan, it stops when temp reaches around 60 C, the loglow's board with a heat sink can run at 60 C. There are many reasons can cause the difference, I don't know exactly. The easiest guesses are that the heat sink may be degraded after many times of putting on and taking off, or the chip is weaken after many times of overheating. If you really want to test 960Hz overclocking, I suggest that you test your T4 module with a heat sink working at 960MHz stand alone for a few hours before soldering it to the FRDM4236 board.
For 1 GHz, it stops around 43 C, so in 1G Hz operation, it needs to be cooling down more. It works for me with a fan and a Heat sink.
I will have all log files including 1 GHz overclocking to post later. There is no reason to run at 1GHz for your projects, it's too risky.
I don't think there is a problem in the PCB layout. the board does not have an active component, passive components hardly will fail. The sandwich board may add a little insulation, but it's insignificant. I will re-share it on Oshpark soon. It will take 2 weeks to get it from Oshpark, so I will make 5 kits of the new V3 with USB host ready by the end of next week for any one who would like to have it sooner, $4 + $3 shipping. Please contact trainer4edu@gmail.com.
@KurtE: I will reserve one for you. Thanks.
defragster
Senior Member+
I got a preview of the test logs - they are running the SSD1306 sketch : View attachment ssd1306_128x64_i2c_B.ino
Just a note running the SSD1306 on the loglow board today with heat sink and no fan - just under 10 minutes USB output started showing wrong numbers at 960 MHz. My room was 80°F earlier so that was a factor - closer to 70F now.
So don't rely on TempMon to report up to failure when doing OC - it will SPIKE and just quit if not more than cool enough.
That T4 getting tired of abuse or adding the SSD1306 power and data clocking I/O - it is not happy running at 960 MHz either - at ambient temp of 80F.
At 912 cooling probably important - over that good cooling seems critical to function and survival of the MCU.
What about Current? I wondered what happens to current when the SSD1306 and T4 freeze - not sure if @FRDM4236 measured/watched for that.
The Loglow board running SSD1306 test quickly cycles through a series of the Adafruit test screens - when running at 960 now with heatsink - only seeing 53C - not the 60 where it went funny before. Current goes from low 0.144A and peaks at 0.217A during the test screens.
7 mins running at 55C in cooler room.
Tried 996 MHz and it barely started - peaked current at 0.224A and quit - current then drops to 0.07A - so at least it shuts down when it goes bad.
Let it cool a minute and it did run a minute at 960 - then it went into restart loop before temp rose much.
OC @ 816 MHz: 0.114A running SSD1306 from 3.3V and peak is 0.158A - lower current - temps and longer life. 10 mins running temp at 48C.
Funny Note - I thought the FreqMeasure sample was running warmer:
>> SSD1306 at 32 mins >>49°C loopTime=3878988 run mins=32.699083 F_CPU=816000000
Then upload : T:\tCode\T4\FreqCntTest\FreqCntTest.ino : with ssd1306 unpowered running at 0.154A.
>> F_CPU=816000000 deg C=58
Just a note running the SSD1306 on the loglow board today with heat sink and no fan - just under 10 minutes USB output started showing wrong numbers at 960 MHz. My room was 80°F earlier so that was a factor - closer to 70F now.
So don't rely on TempMon to report up to failure when doing OC - it will SPIKE and just quit if not more than cool enough.
That T4 getting tired of abuse or adding the SSD1306 power and data clocking I/O - it is not happy running at 960 MHz either - at ambient temp of 80F.
At 912 cooling probably important - over that good cooling seems critical to function and survival of the MCU.
What about Current? I wondered what happens to current when the SSD1306 and T4 freeze - not sure if @FRDM4236 measured/watched for that.
The Loglow board running SSD1306 test quickly cycles through a series of the Adafruit test screens - when running at 960 now with heatsink - only seeing 53C - not the 60 where it went funny before. Current goes from low 0.144A and peaks at 0.217A during the test screens.
7 mins running at 55C in cooler room.
Tried 996 MHz and it barely started - peaked current at 0.224A and quit - current then drops to 0.07A - so at least it shuts down when it goes bad.
Let it cool a minute and it did run a minute at 960 - then it went into restart loop before temp rose much.
OC @ 816 MHz: 0.114A running SSD1306 from 3.3V and peak is 0.158A - lower current - temps and longer life. 10 mins running temp at 48C.
Funny Note - I thought the FreqMeasure sample was running warmer:
>> SSD1306 at 32 mins >>49°C loopTime=3878988 run mins=32.699083 F_CPU=816000000
Then upload : T:\tCode\T4\FreqCntTest\FreqCntTest.ino : with ssd1306 unpowered running at 0.154A.
>> F_CPU=816000000 deg C=58
Last edited:
Test log files: www.trainer4edu.com/edubase_teensy/frdm4236_test_log.zip
MichaelMeissner
Senior Member+
@FRDM4236 I'm finally getting around to soldering the board you sent me, and I'm also looking at the V3 board currently being produced at OSH park (+ purple Teensy 4.0) that I ordered on October 20th.
I realize you don't need electrical connections for any of the outer pins except VIN, ground, SCL, and SDA, but I'm wondering if you plated some of the pins on the left side (i.e. ground, pins 0-12), it might make for a more secure soldering connection. I.e. even if the pin isn't connected to anything, if I solder one or more of the pins from the Teensy on the left side to the plated holes, it should in theory be more secure in holding the two boards together. That way you have full pins connecting on both sides of the boards, plus the 1/2 pins on the back row, and the castlelated pins for the underneath pads. I worry without something on the left side, that using excessive force to remove a board from the headers, might break the castlelated solder joins.
I realize you don't need electrical connections for any of the outer pins except VIN, ground, SCL, and SDA, but I'm wondering if you plated some of the pins on the left side (i.e. ground, pins 0-12), it might make for a more secure soldering connection. I.e. even if the pin isn't connected to anything, if I solder one or more of the pins from the Teensy on the left side to the plated holes, it should in theory be more secure in holding the two boards together. That way you have full pins connecting on both sides of the boards, plus the 1/2 pins on the back row, and the castlelated pins for the underneath pads. I worry without something on the left side, that using excessive force to remove a board from the headers, might break the castlelated solder joins.
KurtE
Senior Member+
@FRDM4236 and ... - Yesterday I received your kit in the mail. Thanks.
So later yesterday I used your older instructions with a few obvious differences to assemble your board:
Which since then you updated: http://www.trainer4edu.com/edubase_teensy/frdm_4236.html
Again thanks.
As I used a little Flux, I later washed the board with water and old toothbrush, and left to dry on the stove over night...
This morning, I did a few quick tests to make sure there were no obvious magic smoke like shorts, and then plugged it in...
I then ran @defragsters HiLow sketch with my quick and dirty additional test at the start for obvious shorts.
Looks like all pins work
Also SD library cardinfo works
I have not yet tried the USB on it... Should work.
Now, I might modify one of my other boards to try it out on it. When I order some others, may have to decide if it is better to use your USB connections, or without and stick with POGO pins for those.
But it is so far looking good. Next up where to order... Any updates?
Thanks again
Kurt
So later yesterday I used your older instructions with a few obvious differences to assemble your board:
Which since then you updated: http://www.trainer4edu.com/edubase_teensy/frdm_4236.html
Again thanks.
As I used a little Flux, I later washed the board with water and old toothbrush, and left to dry on the stove over night...
This morning, I did a few quick tests to make sure there were no obvious magic smoke like shorts, and then plugged it in...
I then ran @defragsters HiLow sketch with my quick and dirty additional test at the start for obvious shorts.
Looks like all pins work
Also SD library cardinfo works
I have not yet tried the USB on it... Should work.
Now, I might modify one of my other boards to try it out on it. When I order some others, may have to decide if it is better to use your USB connections, or without and stick with POGO pins for those.
But it is so far looking good. Next up where to order... Any updates?
Thanks again
Kurt
defragster
Senior Member+
Good results KurtE! I got mine as well but no time to solder yet. Glad you found the updated instructions to work, I'll start with them.
@FRDM4236 said The board is not yet shared at OSHpark until it gets tested to work. The portion tested so far is the same - it is the USB 'sidecar' that it the new add.
Hopefully OSH can build it right with the PCB removal.
@FRDM4236 said The board is not yet shared at OSHpark until it gets tested to work. The portion tested so far is the same - it is the USB 'sidecar' that it the new add.
Hopefully OSH can build it right with the PCB removal.
The FRDM4236-V3 breakout board is available at Oshpark. https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/8rSyUnt5
KurtE
Senior Member+
Thanks - I ordered a set of these as well as the ones without USB... Will figure out which one I wish to use on boards, as not sure if better with your USB which is easy to attach or just use Pogo pins for those two as to not take up the extra room for 6 pins on the side... Of course I could also choose to not add some of the additional pads
PaulStoffregen
Well-known member
@FRDM4236 - We're going to soon write a blog article to show your expansion board on the PJRC site, and also a similar article for Dean's board. I want to be sure we give you proper credit, but I can't find your name anywhere. Would you prefer we call this "FRDM4236's board" or "Trainer4EDU", or use your name to credit you directly?
@PaulStoffregen - Using FRDM4236 is OK, thanks.
@KurtE - Glad you had good results. Blackketter's USB board works on his breakout board and it should work on FRDM4236 board. I don't expect any problems, but you never know.
@MichaelMeissner - I could not plate most of pins except G, D0-D4, otherwise traces from 1mm pitch holes cannot be routed to pins 34-39 in a 2-layer board without enlarging the board.
@KurtE - Glad you had good results. Blackketter's USB board works on his breakout board and it should work on FRDM4236 board. I don't expect any problems, but you never know.
@MichaelMeissner - I could not plate most of pins except G, D0-D4, otherwise traces from 1mm pitch holes cannot be routed to pins 34-39 in a 2-layer board without enlarging the board.
MichaelMeissner
Senior Member+
No problem. just having 1 or 2 holes on the left side would probably help.
@MichaelMeissner - I added all pads I could on both versions, with or without USB host.
The new boards are available at Oshpark.
https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/vzG532jm
https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/GFFDokGT, I made it smaller, so it's 50 cents cheaper.
The new boards are available at Oshpark.
https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/vzG532jm
https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/GFFDokGT, I made it smaller, so it's 50 cents cheaper.
MichaelMeissner
Senior Member+
Cool thanks. My previous set came back from OSH park and the castlelated part for pins24-33 was not cut out. There were normal holes there, so I figured I could just put chunk of solder in the hole and melt it. But I might go and reorder the board.
defragster
Senior Member+
Getting those castelations cut reliably is going to be tough. Even the board @FRDM4236 just got back from his maker left two of the pins only partly routed to the outside of two holes.
KurtE
Senior Member+
Just an FYI - I have been playing around with new design board based off of the FRDM (non-usb), that I am in the process of ordering a group from PCBWay... Right now waiting for review...
Sort of a Kitchen sink board for some of my Robotics stuff plus...
In theory hopefully most of it should work with T4 (FRDM castellated), parts of it should work on T4 without, hopefully lots should work with T3.6 (or 3.5)...
USBHost - I have Pogo pins setup for T4. I have USB pins for T3.6, keeping fingers crossed that T4.x? will have some foot print including USB pins, but... It has the USB power chip which could work for either on other boards, could not populate and use off of T3.6 plus...
Dynamixel Servos: I have setup to use pins 6-8 TX2 plus pin for Serial direction (should work on all boards, even plain T4)
QWIIC - connections for all three T4 Wire setups. First 2 will work on T3.6 but both are on Wire, alternate pins.
3 pin headers for all IO pins (Bottom row +5v, top row 3.3v) Thought about making these jumper-able for VIN instead, to run RC servos, but maybe next one...
+5V - Have setup to either use USB or Voltage regulator. I am setup now for Pololu VR probably the 2 amp output version, should work with 1 amp version as well.
+3.3v - I have setup 3 different ways, only one should be setup on a board.
Simple Buzzer circuit with diode and transistor by default pin 33
Setup to hopefully be able to plug in Adafruit ST7735 or ST7789 display, that is the row of pins below the VR I mentioned. For myself I am thinking the small one of either, which should extend out near edge of board. But hopefully larger ones will fit.
A couple of gratuitous LEDS hooked up to D32 and D31...
Maybe a few things I forgot, but assuming they finish a review... Will hopefully get a set in a week or so...
But for now just doing it to have some fun. Besides I am waiting for my FRDM boards from OSHPark...
Edit: Yes I know I am showing a T3.6 and not a T4 with the T3.6 castellated board soldered on.
Sort of a Kitchen sink board for some of my Robotics stuff plus...
In theory hopefully most of it should work with T4 (FRDM castellated), parts of it should work on T4 without, hopefully lots should work with T3.6 (or 3.5)...
USBHost - I have Pogo pins setup for T4. I have USB pins for T3.6, keeping fingers crossed that T4.x? will have some foot print including USB pins, but... It has the USB power chip which could work for either on other boards, could not populate and use off of T3.6 plus...
Dynamixel Servos: I have setup to use pins 6-8 TX2 plus pin for Serial direction (should work on all boards, even plain T4)
QWIIC - connections for all three T4 Wire setups. First 2 will work on T3.6 but both are on Wire, alternate pins.
3 pin headers for all IO pins (Bottom row +5v, top row 3.3v) Thought about making these jumper-able for VIN instead, to run RC servos, but maybe next one...
+5V - Have setup to either use USB or Voltage regulator. I am setup now for Pololu VR probably the 2 amp output version, should work with 1 amp version as well.
+3.3v - I have setup 3 different ways, only one should be setup on a board.
Solder jumper to T4 pin
Simple SOT89-3 VR - have used versions that output something like 250ma I see some as high as 600ma - I have the input to this +5V
Pololu 3.3v 1 amp - Mounted horizontal this is the green thing near USB Host connector. Have solder jumpers to either input VIN or +5V (pros and cons to each)
Simple SOT89-3 VR - have used versions that output something like 250ma I see some as high as 600ma - I have the input to this +5V
Pololu 3.3v 1 amp - Mounted horizontal this is the green thing near USB Host connector. Have solder jumpers to either input VIN or +5V (pros and cons to each)
Simple Buzzer circuit with diode and transistor by default pin 33
Setup to hopefully be able to plug in Adafruit ST7735 or ST7789 display, that is the row of pins below the VR I mentioned. For myself I am thinking the small one of either, which should extend out near edge of board. But hopefully larger ones will fit.
A couple of gratuitous LEDS hooked up to D32 and D31...
Maybe a few things I forgot, but assuming they finish a review... Will hopefully get a set in a week or so...
But for now just doing it to have some fun. Besides I am waiting for my FRDM boards from OSHPark...
Edit: Yes I know I am showing a T3.6 and not a T4 with the T3.6 castellated board soldered on.
KurtE
Senior Member+
@FRDM4236 - It is probably posted elsewhere but wondering.
a) Which SDCard adapter are you using? (DO you have a link). Actually whole parts list would be great. Like which button are you using...
b) Are some/all of the design files shared? Example suppose I wish to make a cross version between with and without USB, where hypothetically the USB pins come out at a different location.
Options are:
a) maybe another pin at each side on the front (USB side)...
b) somehow adapted to come out at the T3.6 location under the board...
...
Just having fun playing!
FYI - I have one of the boards from the prevous post using your castellated board assembled and I am now debugging. So far at least my ST7789 hung on it appears to work!
a) Which SDCard adapter are you using? (DO you have a link). Actually whole parts list would be great. Like which button are you using...
b) Are some/all of the design files shared? Example suppose I wish to make a cross version between with and without USB, where hypothetically the USB pins come out at a different location.
Options are:
a) maybe another pin at each side on the front (USB side)...
b) somehow adapted to come out at the T3.6 location under the board...
...
Just having fun playing!
FYI - I have one of the boards from the prevous post using your castellated board assembled and I am now debugging. So far at least my ST7789 hung on it appears to work!
MichaelMeissner
Senior Member+
Or two pins, on the left side USB D-/D+, and the right side VUSB. Dunno for the 2nd pin, but having VUSB next to VIN is helpful if you want to put a switch to turn it on/off, or possibly connect a lipo battery charger to VUSB, VIN, Ground and cut the solder jumper underneath the Teensy.
There the problem is the 5 pins in the 3.5/3.6 are not on standard 0.1" boundaries, so you can't use a standard prototype boar to bring them out.
mjs513
Senior Member+
@FRDM4236
Just wanted to let you know that I just received a set of FRDM4236 breakout boards without USB Host and a set of FRDM4236-V3 with USB boards. OSHPark didn't route out the cut holes in the middle of the board. Now this may be my fault as I didn't see your note on the bottom of your web page "If you would like to order this board, you need to send an email to Oshpark and remind them to route out all cut off holes." Not sure going to take a chance and order another set at this point or not. But there has to be a better way to get them to do it automatically.
Just wanted to let you know that I just received a set of FRDM4236 breakout boards without USB Host and a set of FRDM4236-V3 with USB boards. OSHPark didn't route out the cut holes in the middle of the board. Now this may be my fault as I didn't see your note on the bottom of your web page "If you would like to order this board, you need to send an email to Oshpark and remind them to route out all cut off holes." Not sure going to take a chance and order another set at this point or not. But there has to be a better way to get them to do it automatically.
KurtE
Senior Member+
@mjs513 and @FRDM4236...
My order from OSHPark, arrived in town on Friday, picked up yesterday, and they look fine (I think). I ordered sets of with and without USB boards, as was not sure which way I wanted to go when I ordered...
I did not email them to do cutouts, but I did originally screw up and ordered as the 1.6mm instead of the thinner boards... But I caught it and emailed them about please move the boards to the the .8... boards, and got an email saying no problem...
Also in the picture showing the assembled one with USB you sent me that I have on Breadboard, and the one I assembled without USB that I used on my own breakout. Not fully assembled yet, waiting for new DC/DC converter from Pololu which should arrive maybe tomorrow...
My order from OSHPark, arrived in town on Friday, picked up yesterday, and they look fine (I think). I ordered sets of with and without USB boards, as was not sure which way I wanted to go when I ordered...
I did not email them to do cutouts, but I did originally screw up and ordered as the 1.6mm instead of the thinner boards... But I caught it and emailed them about please move the boards to the the .8... boards, and got an email saying no problem...
Also in the picture showing the assembled one with USB you sent me that I have on Breadboard, and the one I assembled without USB that I used on my own breakout. Not fully assembled yet, waiting for new DC/DC converter from Pololu which should arrive maybe tomorrow...
mjs513
Senior Member+
@KurtE and @FRDM4236...
Strange that you got the right boards and my came in different config. I ordered from this link https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/vzG532jm. Unfortunately I missed changing the thickness of the board to 0.8mm as well. Unless that makes a difference if they do the cut out our not?
Strange that you got the right boards and my came in different config. I ordered from this link https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/vzG532jm. Unfortunately I missed changing the thickness of the board to 0.8mm as well. Unless that makes a difference if they do the cut out our not?
MichaelMeissner
Senior Member+
As I mentioned above, I had the same issue with pins 24-33 not being castlelatted. I put in another order after FRDM4236 redid the design to add some copper to make it easier to solder both sides, and it came out fine. It seems like luck of the draw.
I did finally get around to soldering the original FRDM4236 V1 board, and it went well. I was able to run the SD card speed tester, and it seemed to work fine using normal headers.
In my first attempt, I tried to use stacking headers, and I couldn't get all of the pins connected (with normal stacking headers, you solder it on the bottom, but with castlelatted boards, you have to solder on the top, and I just couldn't get the solder to flow. In cutting off the stacking header, and de-soldering the pins, I think I removed the copper for 2-3 pins. I switched to a new Teensy for soldering the FRDM4236 board. The original Teensy should be fine if I solder underneath, so I will probably just use it without the breakout board.
Now to add audio to uncanny eyes
I need to learn how to solder surface mount components that don't have the little legs sticking out to get to the board with the USB host pins for complete control.
I did finally get around to soldering the original FRDM4236 V1 board, and it went well. I was able to run the SD card speed tester, and it seemed to work fine using normal headers.
In my first attempt, I tried to use stacking headers, and I couldn't get all of the pins connected (with normal stacking headers, you solder it on the bottom, but with castlelatted boards, you have to solder on the top, and I just couldn't get the solder to flow. In cutting off the stacking header, and de-soldering the pins, I think I removed the copper for 2-3 pins. I switched to a new Teensy for soldering the FRDM4236 board. The original Teensy should be fine if I solder underneath, so I will probably just use it without the breakout board.
Now to add audio to uncanny eyes
I need to learn how to solder surface mount components that don't have the little legs sticking out to get to the board with the USB host pins for complete control.
KurtE
Senior Member+
@mjs513 - Same link, but when it adds it to the Cart - there is a a set of possible options, like supper swift...
One of them is: 2 oz copper, 0.8mm thickness
Which is what I forgot to check, but noticed it in my order receipt and went Oops, and quickly put hold on order and emailed them...
One of them is: 2 oz copper, 0.8mm thickness
Which is what I forgot to check, but noticed it in my order receipt and went Oops, and quickly put hold on order and emailed them...
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