open-source teensy-compatible - what features do you want?

ptorrone

ptorrone

Active member
Moderator note:

This thread is drama between Adafruit and SparkFun. SparkFun has posted an official response on their website, including their public Code of Conduct.

For now we are allowing this conversation to continue. If you reply, please do so thoughtfully.


limor and i can’t purchase teensys from sparkfun anymore, they now decide who can buy, using a secret set of rules. since sparkfun is now the exclusive maker and seller of teensy, and paul and robin apparently have no say, limor and i were informed we’re not allowed to purchase.

instead of being sad about it, we’re doing the obvious thing. we’re making an open-source, teensy-compatible board.

we also just had our second kid a few weeks ago, so the timing is not great. that’s fine. last night, after a cluster breastfeeding session (parents know exactly what that means), limor and i started this project. “freensy” is the working name. it is not the final name. maybe.

features​

  • open source. anyone can purchase it and or manufacture it
  • lower cost: $9.95
core
  • rp2350 32-bit cortex m33 dual core
  • 150 mhz at 3.3v logic and power
  • overclocking:
    • 300 mhz often achievable with a small voltage bump, vreg to ~1.20v or 1.25v
    • 350 mhz and up requires max safe internal voltage around 1.30v to 1.35v plus some silicon lottery luck
memory and storage
  • 520 kb ram + 8 kb otp memory
  • 8 mb spi flash for files and circuitpython or micropython storage
  • no eeprom
  • appears as a usb mass-storage device on your computer

usb and power
  • usb host on any two pins
  • modern usb-c device
  • built-in lipo charging with optional jst connector footprint (or use the vbat pin)
  • 600ma peak 3.3v regulator
  • 4 layer board with inner ground and 3v planes

io and debug
  • stemma qt i2c port for hundreds of sensors, oleds, breakouts, etc
  • swd debug footprint on the bottom

indicators
  • onboard neopixel
  • red status led

software
  • open source, non-proprietary bootloader
  • supports arduino, micropython, circuitpython, pico sdk, go, rust

mechanical
  • color: red
  • optional enclosure
  • full enclosure design published as free open source so anyone can make or modify it

things we’re thinking about​

  • should we add an optional footprint for 2 mb or 8 mb psram?
also, we’ll be doing an esp32 p4 version.


nothing says “new baby energy” like starting a new board at 3am and making sure no single company gets to decide who is allowed to build.


freensy.jpg
 
jmarsh said:
You can't just sell a pi pico 2 under the name "freensy" and declare it to be Teensy compatible...
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check out the specs, it's no a pi pico 2 and rp2350 is not the only chip, did you see the new esp stuff, that too... i can post more about that if ya want, i gotta drop a kid off at school and i'll be back in a bit.
 
jmarsh said:
It is more or less, except you're charging more.
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the good news is you will have choices, we do not, we can't sell the teensy because of a secret policty and paul is being bullied by sparkfun, so here we are, put in features you want or need, now is your chance, and it's all open-source ...
 
jmarsh said:
Slip of the tongue there? Perhaps you've been banned from purchasing Teensys because you're reselling them?
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wow, you really do not understand what we are, a reseller of teensy, authorized and all that. but now it's sparkfun's and this is their biz and this is how they do things.

adafruit has purchased teensys for years from paul and robin, we are a top reseller. sparkfun is now the exclusive maker and seller. we were told they have a secret set of rules and we are now banned from purchasing from sparkfun. if you have more questions i will answer all of them, see if paul and sparkfun will? to be clear, we'd rather just purchase teensy, but that ship sailed when paul said this is "final" to us over email last night.
 
There has been drama between Adafruit and SparkFun.

I'm not prepared to comment on any of this drama. I have also mixed feelings about whether to allow this forum conversation to continue, partly due to the fact this is heated drama which most forums tend to moderate (and we've had so little here that we really don't have specific policies & practices for drama), and also partly due to the spammy nature of product promotion.

If anyone jumps into this conversation, please do so knowing you're getting into long-standing drama between Adafruit and SparkFun.
 
I want to understand your situation @ptorrone . So you are authorized reseller of Teensy and you were rejected by Sparkfun from buying from them? Did you try buying from DigiKey? They have Teensy's in stock and I am pretty sure that they will be more than happy to sell them to you. I tried to buy from Sparkfun only to learn that they charge astronomical fees for shipping so I went to DigiKey and got free shipping from DigiKey and I am happy :)

Also, my 2 cents worth, I am not sure if RP2350 board has any chance to fly when you already can get RP2350-based boards with same spec as yours from AliExpress significantly below $9.95

Teensy is not just hardware. The half of Teensy appeal is software support from Paul. That is what you are paying for.
 
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tomas said:
I want to understand your situation @ptorrone . So you are authorized reseller of Teensy and you were rejected by Sparkfun from buying from them? Did you try buying from DigiKey? They have Teensy's in stock and I am pretty sure that they will be more than happy to sell them to you. I tried to buy from Sparkfun only to learn that they charge astronomical fees for shipping so I went to DigiKey and got free shipping from DigiKey and I am happy :)

Also, my 2 cents worth, I am not sure if RP2350 board has any chance to fly when you can already get RP2350-based boards from AliExpress below $9.95.
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thanks tomas for engaging directly and not making assumptions.

yes, we are an authorized reseller and have been since the beginning. we were likely the first reseller, and for years we were one of paul’s top channels. i’ve personally helped paul multiple times beyond reselling, including introductions, distribution help, and getting teensy stocked at other major distributors. that history matters, even if it’s now inconvenient.

what changed is paul no longer manufactures teensy. sparkfun is now the exclusive manufacturer and seller. paul informed us that sparkfun made a “final decision” not to sell to us, based on a private set of rules they refuse to disclose to us or to paul himself.

buying via digikey does not solve this. it would cost more to buy, stock, and support a product sourced indirectly than to purchase from the sole required upstream seller, sparkfun. that makes no economic or operational sense for a reseller.

if cost is the concern here, i’m happy to send you one for free so you can evaluate it directly.

for historical clarity, attached is an example where, at paul’s request, i helped get teensy properly set up at digikey. that work now benefits sparkfun exclusively. it would be good for paul to be candid about our past reseller relationship, especially now that it has effectively been terminated by decisions outside our control.
 

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tomas said:
I’m sorry to hear that things have taken such an unfortunate turn.
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us too, but more free open hardware is ahead and you get a free one to beta test, email me pt at adafruit and i'll send one when the prototypes arrive
 
BriComp said:
If you feel so aggrieved why don't you buy the IC_MKL02Z32_T4_QFN16 from Paul and maker your own Teensies?
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let me super clear, since paul and sparkfun (secret rules) cannot. we are not aggrieved, paul has closed sourced the bootloader and upload system for teensies, this is a great opportunity to come up with an open source hardware solution. also, its good to not be dependent on one chipset - after all the teensy 3.x was popular yet still met an untimely demise during the chip shortage.
 
joepasquariello said:
Can you please explain how your new hardware could be compatible with Teensy software?
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i will answer it again, this is helpful for our FAQ, keep asking questions folks and feature requests.

you would still use arduino ide (or platformio, or cmake, etc), and get all the standard support for i2c/spi/uart/pwm/adc/i2s/usbh plus of course you get dma-driven dithered neopixel driving thanks to https://github.com/adafruit/adafruit_neopxl8 etc. its not the same chip, which is how we get the price so much lower, but it does free us up to add things like lipo battery support/charging, onboard 8mb of storage (you can have it act like a disk drive), swd debugging, plug-and-play qt etc. we recommend the philhower arduino core, its very well supported and has a large community adding new features and capabilities all the time :)

paul has bolted on to open source for years and made a great living from it, now sparkfun gets to profit from a closed source board, it's 2 of the three top sellers on their site. it would be great if paul open sourced stuff, but that's his choice, in the end ... open wins, so maybe he will one day.
 

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tomas said:
Personally, I need more computing power, so I would welcome microcontroller in the 1GHz range. Anything less than that is step back compared to Teensy 4.
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that is great to know! thanks for that info - what do you need 1 ghz for? like what microcontroller tasks require it that are not handled by something like pio? please be super specific and point to github examples, or detail it here.

based on history, when sparkfun is the sole maker of product they did not design, there are no updates or features, so i would say an open version with multiple chips has the best chance to continually be updating to faster chips, etc. the open version we are doing already has things like usb c.
 
ptorrone said:
you would still use arduino ide (or platformio, or cmake, etc), and get all the standard support for i2c/spi/uart/pwm/adc/i2s/usbh plus of course you get dma-driven dithered neopixel driving thanks to https://github.com/adafruit/adafruit_neopxl8 etc. its not the same chip, which is how we get the price so much lower, but it does free us up to add things like lipo battery support/charging, onboard 8mb of storage (you can have it act like a disk drive), swd debugging, plug-and-play qt etc. we recommend the philhower arduino core, its very well supported and has a large community adding new features and capabilities all the time :)
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Unless I misunderstand, it's simply a 2350 Arduino that kinda looks like a T4.0. Is that right? Why do you say it's like Teensy?
 
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