Project: MIDI to 9000+ RGB LEDs

I am building a new light show for our band and I'm seeking a bit of advice for feasibility and implementation guidance. The idea is pretty simple: control 9216 RGB LEDs with MIDI.

Parts

  • Laptop, send MIDI notes to Teensy with USB
  • Teensy 4.1 board (MIDI device and controller for LEDs)
  • 36 pcs. WS2815 (12V, 8x32) RGB LED panels
  • 3 x 1kW 12V power supplies

Questions:
  • Is this doable with only one Teensy 4.1 board or should I have three Teensy boards, 1 for each LED pole?
  • How to mitigate the delays controlling such a big system? This needs to be run real time and synchronized to live music. Se delay must be under 50 ms. Basically there are sections that correspond to certain MIDI note. For example MIDI note 127 from channel 1 lights up pole 1, panel 1, 1 section.
  • Is Teensy MIDI device via USB or do I need some extension? Basically just plug USB cable from computer and it can be seen as a MIDI device where to send MIDI notes from DAW?
  • What do you think about the power management?
  • Wow to mitigate the possible problem to control ws2815 panels from Teensy, since the length from Teensy PIN to panels might be around 1-2 meters. If I would use 3 Teensy boards then the length from Teensy to panel would be very short since the board can be attached behind the panels, of course then the USB cables needs to be 2-3 meters long from computer.
  • Is it smart to use the ws2815 panels or should I go with some kind of custom solution or something else? I'm seeking very bright LEDs that are suitable for music stage show for mid size club environment.
  • For code I am thinking to use FastLed library.
  • Any other pointers and advice? Is this doable at all?

Here is the diagram.

teensy-plan.png


For the code I was doing a little prototyping for this concept here: https://wokwi.com/projects/404012263767955457
 
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Running 3072 leds on one data line takes ~75mS to refresh

If I take the best case scenario from ws2815 datasheet one bit transfers in 1uS
and each led is 24bit (3x8bit), with reset pulse 600uS
Then it's 24uS * 3072 + 600uS = 74328uS

So you need to have more parallel data lines to get higher refresh rates,
Don't know if the 1 meter lines are too long but have read somewhere that it could work.

Maybe it's best to have one teensy for each "set of panels" (12 led modules), then you could split the data lines so that each module have its own data line then the refresh would only take ~6.74mS
 
3kW of LED lighting is probably enough for daytime use outdoors in a large environment! 100W of LED is enough for a streetlight... I think you'll find you'll be running them well below max and can probably reduce PSU requirements.

Also that many PWM LEDs can create loads of electrical noise, hopefully the panels you've chosen are well filtered for EMC emissions. Data transmission cables need to be screened I think, RS485 chips at each end might be worth investing in as impedance-matched differential signalling is much more robust in harsh EM environments, and will tolerate upto 7V of ground-mismatch.

And ensure all the PSUs and panels are UL safety rated and correctly fused and all the power cabling is adequate for worst case loading.
 
Yes using RS485/RS422 signaling as in the following is a good idea:
makes it possible to only use one teensy to control all leds
And the RS485/RS422 chips are cheaper than multiple teensies


Think you still need to use multiple parallel lines
Say that you have one rs422 transceiver pair for 2 columns in your setup
Then you need 12 rs422 transceiver ic:s to get ~50mS update
@LeD speed 800kHz (800000 bits/s)

Also then it's easier to update the firmware

Think I will use that for my planned flagpole Christmas tree light
 
Here's a quick attempt to answer all the questions.

  • Is this doable with only one Teensy 4.1 board or should I have three Teensy boards, 1 for each LED pole?

From a purely data processing point of view, just one Teensy 4.1 ought to be capable of controlling 9000 LEDs.

But due to the electrical challenges of so much power, already mentioned quite well, and just from an ease of construction and maintenance point of view, using 3 would be much better. More on that in a moment...


  • How to mitigate the delays controlling such a big system? This needs to be run real time and synchronized to live music. Se delay must be under 50 ms.

As already mentioned, the 800 kbit/sec speed of addressable LEDs is the main bottleneck. You really must use parallel output. I'd recommend using OctoWS2811 with the Teensy4 pinlist feature to drive 12 parallel outputs. The should give you about 7.7ms LED update.

Everything else, at least on Teensy, is so much faster than the LED data rate that you (probably) don't need to worry. That was even usually true with the much slower Teensy 3.2 board so many people used. I can recall only a couple times people had speed problems from anything other than the LED comms speed over the ~10 years when Teensy 3.2 was the main board used. Inefficient reading from a SD card was one. If you read patterns from a SD card, read data in large chunks, ideally multiples of the 512 byte SD sector size. The other speed issues where complicated patterns that used floating point trig functions sin(), cos(), etc on every pixel, which could run fast enough on Teensy 3.2 with software floating point when the phase input was between 0 to 2*PI (360 degrees) but slowed quite a lot if the phase variable kept growing infinitely. Of course Teensy 4.1 has hardware FPU and runs about 11X faster for normal integer-based code... but if you create fancy flowing effects by using a many trig functions on each pixel, constrain your phase input to 360 degrees. Point is, LED 800 kbit/sec is almost always the bottleneck by such a huge margin that you usually don't have to worry about other stuff on the Teensy side.

The 2nd likely bottleneck I would anticipate, if the controlling PC runs Microsoft Windows, is the user process scheduling latency. Sometimes Windows will try to save power by reducing the rate it schedules things to run to as slow as 16ms. There are programs that keep Windows in a "multimedia" mode where it won't schedule programs slower than 1ms. If you use Windows, make sure you take care of this detail and test how things really perform when the PC runs for a long time without keyboard or mouse input.

  • Basically there are sections that correspond to certain MIDI note. For example MIDI note 127 from channel 1 lights up pole 1, panel 1, 1 section.
  • Is Teensy MIDI device via USB or do I need some extension? Basically just plug USB cable from computer and it can be seen as a MIDI device where to send MIDI notes from DAW?

In Arduino IDE, click Tools > USB Type and choose MIDI.

Detailed documentation: https://www.pjrc.com/teensy/td_midi.html

  • What do you think about the power management?

Delivering 3kW is a huge challenge. If possible, you should mount the power supplies behind the LEDs and use many pairs of wires as reasonably short as possible from the LEDs to the power supplies.

You might do better to use several smaller power supplies (with GND connected together) each rated for 150W or 200W rather than 1 big one rated for 1000W. Most power supplies really struggle if run at their max for sustained time. If your animations might do that, best to over-provision the power supplies by 20%.

  • Wow to mitigate the possible problem to control ws2815 panels from Teensy, since the length from Teensy PIN to panels might be around 1-2 meters. If I would use 3 Teensy boards then the length from Teensy to panel would be very short since the board can be attached behind the panels, of course then the USB cables needs to be 2-3 meters long from computer.

Ground shift between the high power usage might be a major problem with USB. Doubly so if trying to run a Teensy pin or even buffer chip driving a line that long.

At least with USB you can buy isolators. The cheap ones will also have an advantage of limiting USB to only 12 Mbit/sec speed, which gives you less dependency on high quality cables.

The high-end alternative would be use of Ethernet rather than USB. It really is the excellent choice for large scale LED projects. Ethernet signals always pass through a transformer which elinimates the ground difference problems. The signals are rated to travel up to 100 meters. The market for Ethernet is extremely mature with low prices for high quality cables, switches and other gear.

  • Is it smart to use the ws2815 panels or should I go with some kind of custom solution or something else? I'm seeking very bright LEDs that are suitable for music stage show for mid size club environment.

Whatever type of diffuse material you put in front of the LEDs (if any) will play a large role. This many LEDs at max brightness viewed directly indoors will be painfully too bright. You'll lose some of that brightness in exhance for a much more artistic look by placing material between the LEDs and people's eyes. I can't give you a conclusive answer. It really is a matter of experimentation to find the material and construction that will give you the artistic appearance you want.

  • For code I am thinking to use FastLed library.

If possible, best to use OctoWS2811 directly.

FastLED can use OctoWS2811 as its output driver, but it does not (yet) support the pinlist feature. So if you use FastLED, plan on 8 parallel outputs. Maybe connect 6 and leave the last 2 unused. That'll give you about 15.4 ms update, where again the 800 kbit/sec LED communication speed is your main bottleneck. Not as fast as 12 outputs, but still above 60 Hz so I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Or alternative you could use WS2812Serial, which FastLED can also use as a driver.

DO NOT use the built in FastLED driver. It is a simple blocking approach. You will experience problems as you scale up to many LEDS, because it blocks interrupts you need for USB or Ethernet or even regular serial MIDI communication. For this many LEDs where you're depending on communication that could arrive at any moment (won't be 100% guaranteed to only arrive when you're not updating the LEDs) you really must use a non-blocking driver like OctoWS2811 or WS2812Serial.

Both of those libraries come with examples showing how to use them from FastLED, so in Arduino IDE just click File > Examples > OctoWS2811 and File > Examples > WS2812Serial and look for the example with a name indicating it's the one demonstrating FastLED usage.

  • Any other pointers and advice? Is this doable at all?

Very doable. My main extra advice is to plan for problems. That's the main reason to use 3 Teensy boards. If you make each unit as self-contained as possible, if (when) something goes wrong with 1, hopefully the other 2 continuing to work will be good enough for a satisfying show. Again, Ethernet is pretty much the ideal way to communicate (at least electrically), as the magnetic signal coupling gives each part the best chance of continuing to work properly even when there's an electrical problem with the others.

But to use Ethernet you'll need to create software which sends packets (probably UDP) when the MIDI messages are seen. If you can do that software work, it's probably worth the huge electrical benefits of Ethernet. You could still use USB MIDI and have a 4th Teensy which hears the MIDI output from your PC and in turn transmits UDP packets on its Ethernet port. Then you'd connect it and other other Teensy Ethernet ports to an Ethernet switch. It's extra hardware, but you can keep each piece well isolated from the others. If (when) something goes wrong, you'll probably be glad to have it built as separate parts that are easy to swap (if you build spares) and get the show back up and running.
 
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Thanks so much for the answers. Using the OctoWS2811 library and adaptor sounds like a perfect solution. Definitely sounds sensible to have one Teensy board per pole and sync all 3 poles with cable.

I’m now thinking should I go for a long USB cable for Teensy and short CAT cables, or short USB cable and long CAT cables (2-3 meters) for the panels?

Also that ethernet solution sounds interesting but maybe as a plan B at this stage and try to run with USB MIDI for now. We are not storing the light programs inside Teensy memory but rather just have a simple logic that maps colors and pixels with midi notes live.

With one OctoWS2811 and T41 can I still use max 16 pins (8+8), this would be enough for 1 pole sine it only has 12 8x32 panels?

Oh and I use Mac computer at live situation, for the USB MIDI this should not be any issue I hope.

And if you are interested, this is our current live setup with non-addressable 5050 leds and Arduino board
 
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You should definitely check options to use Ethernet with a Teensy 4.1 and run Artnet or tpm2.net. There is a lot of software which supports such protocols and makes programming and control easy from a laptop.

I don't see why one Teensy 4.1 shouldn't be sufficient. I am running a setup with around 10k pixels. Using CAT cables on the OCTOWS2811 adapter boards together with splitters runs on 10 parallel data lines over 10 to 20 meters reliably.
 
OK, so the project has started. Current setup:

DAW MIDI Out via USB -> Teensy 4.1 -> OctoWS2811 -> WS2815 (256 or 512 RGB LEDs, 32x8 LED Matrix Display, 12V with external power supply).

Current code is as follows (can be found also from here). Problem is that when I have lot of short midi messages or there is basically "too much" MIDI messages, the LED panel gets really laggy and at worst case it crashes the DAW. I did stress test with MIDI to internal LED and that worked fine, it is only when Octo and WS2815 panel is added to the setup. How to make the code more optimized or do I need faster LED panel?

C++:
#include <OctoWS2811.h>

const int ledsPerStrip = 512;
const int totalLeds = 512;
const int ledsPerGroup = 32;
const int numGroups = totalLeds / ledsPerGroup;

DMAMEM int displayMemory[ledsPerStrip * 6];
int drawingMemory[ledsPerStrip * 6];

const int config = WS2811_GRB | WS2811_800kHz;

OctoWS2811 leds(ledsPerStrip, displayMemory, drawingMemory, config);

bool ledStateChanged = false;
unsigned long lastUpdateTime = 0;
const unsigned long updateInterval = 10; // Minimum time between updates in milliseconds

struct ChannelState
{
    uint8_t velocity;
};

struct GroupState
{
    ChannelState channel1; // Blue
    ChannelState channel2; // Red
    ChannelState channel3; // Green
};

GroupState groupStates[numGroups] = {0};

uint8_t mapVelocityToBrightness(uint8_t velocity)
{
    // Map MIDI velocity (0-127) to LED brightness (0-255)
    return map(velocity, 0, 127, 0, 255);
}

void updateGroupLeds(int group)
{
    uint8_t r = mapVelocityToBrightness(groupStates[group].channel2.velocity);
    uint8_t g = mapVelocityToBrightness(groupStates[group].channel3.velocity);
    uint8_t b = mapVelocityToBrightness(groupStates[group].channel1.velocity);

    int startLed = group * ledsPerGroup;
    int endLed = min(startLed + ledsPerGroup - 1, totalLeds - 1);

    for (int i = startLed; i <= endLed; i++)
    {
        leds.setPixel(i, g, r, b); // Note: GRB order for WS2815
    }
    ledStateChanged = true;
}

void handleNoteOn(byte channel, byte pitch, byte velocity)
{
    if (pitch <= 127 && pitch >= (127 - numGroups + 1))
    {
        int group = 127 - pitch;
        switch (channel)
        {
        case 1:
            groupStates[group].channel1.velocity = velocity;
            break;
        case 2:
            groupStates[group].channel2.velocity = velocity;
            break;
        case 3:
            groupStates[group].channel3.velocity = velocity;
            break;
        default:
            return; // Ignore other channels
        }
        updateGroupLeds(group);
    }
}

void handleNoteOff(byte channel, byte pitch, byte velocity)
{
    if (pitch <= 127 && pitch >= (127 - numGroups + 1))
    {
        int group = 127 - pitch;
        switch (channel)
        {
        case 1:
            groupStates[group].channel1.velocity = 0;
            break;
        case 2:
            groupStates[group].channel2.velocity = 0;
            break;
        case 3:
            groupStates[group].channel3.velocity = 0;
            break;
        default:
            return; // Ignore other channels
        }
        updateGroupLeds(group);
    }
}

void setup()
{
    usbMIDI.begin();
    usbMIDI.setHandleNoteOn(handleNoteOn);
    usbMIDI.setHandleNoteOff(handleNoteOff);

    leds.begin();
    leds.show();
}

void loop()
{
    usbMIDI.read();

    unsigned long currentTime = millis();
    if (ledStateChanged && (currentTime - lastUpdateTime >= updateInterval))
    {
        leds.show();
        ledStateChanged = false;
        lastUpdateTime = currentTime;
    }
}
 
On the Teensy side the update interval of 10ms should be fine (expected around 1,5ms for 512 LEDs). Even too short times would not cause a problem.

What exactly do you mean by "...MIDI to internal LED..."?

How is the MIDI data generated? Can you limit the update rate somehow?

Someone else should be able to say more about this: USB has not only a limit in the data rate . There is a limit of possible (small) packages of data. I don't know if there is a way to "collect" the data in larger packages somehow at the MIDI sending side.
 
On the Teensy side the update interval of 10ms should be fine (expected around 1,5ms for 512 LEDs). Even too short times would not cause a problem.

What exactly do you mean by "...MIDI to internal LED..."?

How is the MIDI data generated? Can you limit the update rate somehow?

Someone else should be able to say more about this: USB has not only a limit in the data rate . There is a limit of possible (small) packages of data. I don't know if there is a way to "collect" the data in larger packages somehow at the MIDI sending side.

For the internal led: I was sending MIDI notes to Teensy and just basically blinking the internal led light at Teensy board and that didn't have any issues.

So the problem is not MIDI itself or the cable. I would say it seems that it is related to the panel. I am programming the MIDI notes at DAW. Basically just notes in piano roll and they need to be fast if I want to make a strobe effect. 1/16 notes were OK but I started to have problems with 1/32 and 1/64 notes. Also if I had 1/16 notes and if I rise the tempo to 500 BPM then it started to choke and lag.

at 140 BPM these are the note lengths:
1/16 = 107 ms
1/32 = 54 ms
1/64 = 27 ms

Usually I send around 32 simultaneous notes from DAW to Teensy.

@Paul any tips how to optimize the data handle for Octo?
 
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Using MIDI notes from a DAW seems to be a nice and clever idea.

As your usbMIDI.read is constantly running in the main loop and only interrupted every 10ms (for a very short time) I assume you are reading as much MIDI data as possible and there is no way to receive more data.

When using Ethernet it is important to set a useful packet size, e.g. 1024 bytes, to transfer larger amounts of data reliably. I don't think that there is a way to control what the DAW and USB/MIDI driver exactly are doing. As I was trying to say I am not sure if you are reaching the limit of transfer for MIDI over USB here. Probably it is not possible to make the DAW sent the notes in better packages. Or maybe this is a thing of the USB / MIDI driver. I have no idea how to optimize this.

I am not sure if you could check on the Teensy if there is too much MIDI data received to get an idea if this is really the problem. Using
Code:
while(usbMIDI.read())
and counting the number or the time after stopping data from the DAW to see if there is a huge lack until the data is flushed out?
 
Thanks. My optimized code now look something like this and I can work with fast 1/4 step notes and the update frequency is OK. I am using different outputs from Octo and dividing 256 panel to 4 section. So 1 midi note is 64 leds.

github-link

C-like:
#include <OctoWS2811.h>

const int NUM_PANELS = 4; // Change this to the number of panels you're using
const int LEDS_PER_PANEL = 256;
const int GROUPS_PER_PANEL = 4;

const int ledsPerStrip = LEDS_PER_PANEL;
const int totalLeds = NUM_PANELS * LEDS_PER_PANEL;
const int ledsPerGroup = LEDS_PER_PANEL / GROUPS_PER_PANEL;
const int numGroups = NUM_PANELS * GROUPS_PER_PANEL;

DMAMEM int displayMemory[ledsPerStrip * 6];
int drawingMemory[ledsPerStrip * 6];

const int config = WS2811_RGB | WS2811_800kHz;

OctoWS2811 leds(ledsPerStrip, displayMemory, drawingMemory, config);

struct ChannelState
{
    uint8_t velocity;
};

struct GroupState
{
    ChannelState channel1; // Blue
    ChannelState channel2; // Red
    ChannelState channel3; // Green
};

GroupState groupStates[numGroups] = {0};

bool ledStateChanged = false;
unsigned long lastUpdateTime = 0;
const unsigned long updateInterval = 10; // Minimum time between updates in milliseconds

uint8_t mapVelocityToBrightness(uint8_t velocity)
{
    return map(velocity, 0, 127, 0, 255);
}

void updateGroupLeds(int group)
{
    uint8_t r = mapVelocityToBrightness(groupStates[group].channel2.velocity);
    uint8_t g = mapVelocityToBrightness(groupStates[group].channel3.velocity);
    uint8_t b = mapVelocityToBrightness(groupStates[group].channel1.velocity);

    int panelIndex = group / GROUPS_PER_PANEL;
    int groupWithinPanel = group % GROUPS_PER_PANEL;

    int startLed = groupWithinPanel * ledsPerGroup;
    int endLed = startLed + ledsPerGroup - 1;

    for (int i = startLed; i <= endLed; i++)
    {
        leds.setPixel(i + panelIndex * LEDS_PER_PANEL, r, g, b); // Note: RGB order for WS2811
    }
    ledStateChanged = true;
}

void handleNoteEvent(byte channel, byte pitch, byte velocity, bool isNoteOn)
{
    int lowestNote = 128 - numGroups;
    if (pitch >= lowestNote && pitch <= 127)
    {
        int group = 127 - pitch;
        uint8_t newVelocity = isNoteOn ? velocity : 0;

        switch (channel)
        {
        case 1:
            groupStates[group].channel1.velocity = newVelocity;
            break;
        case 2:
            groupStates[group].channel2.velocity = newVelocity;
            break;
        case 3:
            groupStates[group].channel3.velocity = newVelocity;
            break;
        default:
            return; // Ignore other channels
        }
        updateGroupLeds(group);
    }
}

void setup()
{
    usbMIDI.begin();
    usbMIDI.setHandleNoteOn([](byte channel, byte pitch, byte velocity)
                            { handleNoteEvent(channel, pitch, velocity, true); });
    usbMIDI.setHandleNoteOff([](byte channel, byte pitch, byte velocity)
                             { handleNoteEvent(channel, pitch, velocity, false); });

    leds.begin();
    leds.show();
}

void loop()
{
    while (usbMIDI.read())
    {
        // Process all available MIDI messages
    }

    unsigned long currentTime = millis();
    if (ledStateChanged && (currentTime - lastUpdateTime >= updateInterval))
    {
        leds.show();
        ledStateChanged = false;
        lastUpdateTime = currentTime;
    }
}
 
This is now the latest and BEST code now. It has zero lag and works fully as expected. The best optimization was basically to use while loop over
usbMIDI.read() and ledStateChanged && !leds.busy() over leds.show()

C-like:
#include <OctoWS2811.h>

const int NUM_PANELS = 1;       // 1-8
const int LEDS_PER_PANEL = 512; // 256 or 512, if you chain two 256 panels together then this is 512
const int GROUPS_PER_PANEL = 8; // 4 or 8, if you chain two 256 panels together then this is 8
const int MIDI_CHANNEL = 1;

const int totalLeds = NUM_PANELS * LEDS_PER_PANEL;
const int ledsPerGroup = LEDS_PER_PANEL / GROUPS_PER_PANEL;
const int numGroups = NUM_PANELS * GROUPS_PER_PANEL;
const int totalNotes = numGroups * 3; // Total notes for all colors (blue, red, green)

DMAMEM int displayMemory[LEDS_PER_PANEL * 6];
int drawingMemory[LEDS_PER_PANEL * 6];

const int config = WS2811_RGB | WS2811_800kHz;

OctoWS2811 leds(LEDS_PER_PANEL, displayMemory, drawingMemory, config);

struct GroupState
{
    uint8_t blue;
    uint8_t red;
    uint8_t green;
};

GroupState groupStates[numGroups] = {0};
bool ledStateChanged = false;

uint8_t mapVelocityToBrightness(uint8_t velocity)
{
    return map(velocity, 0, 127, 0, 255);
}

void updateGroupLeds(int group)
{
    uint8_t r = groupStates[group].red;
    uint8_t g = groupStates[group].green;
    uint8_t b = groupStates[group].blue;
    int panelIndex = group / GROUPS_PER_PANEL;
    int groupWithinPanel = group % GROUPS_PER_PANEL;
    int startLed = groupWithinPanel * ledsPerGroup;
    int endLed = startLed + ledsPerGroup - 1;

    for (int i = startLed; i <= endLed; i++)
    {
        leds.setPixel(i + panelIndex * LEDS_PER_PANEL, r, g, b);
    }
    ledStateChanged = true;
}

void handleNoteEvent(byte channel, byte pitch, byte velocity, bool isNoteOn)
{
    if (pitch < 128 - totalNotes || pitch > 127)
        return; // Ignore notes outside our range

    int noteIndex = 127 - pitch;
    int colorIndex = noteIndex / numGroups;
    int groupIndex = noteIndex % numGroups;
    uint8_t newVelocity = isNoteOn ? mapVelocityToBrightness(velocity) : 0;

    switch (colorIndex)
    {
    case 0: // Blue
        groupStates[groupIndex].blue = newVelocity;
        break;
    case 1: // Red
        groupStates[groupIndex].red = newVelocity;
        break;
    case 2: // Green
        groupStates[groupIndex].green = newVelocity;
        break;
    }
    updateGroupLeds(groupIndex);
}

void setup()
{
    usbMIDI.begin();
    usbMIDI.setHandleNoteOn([](byte channel, byte pitch, byte velocity)
                            { handleNoteEvent(channel, pitch, velocity, true); });
    usbMIDI.setHandleNoteOff([](byte channel, byte pitch, byte velocity)
                             { handleNoteEvent(channel, pitch, velocity, false); });

    leds.begin();
    leds.show();
}

void loop()
{
    while (usbMIDI.read(MIDI_CHANNEL))
    {
        // Process all available MIDI messages
    }

    if (ledStateChanged && !leds.busy())
    {
        leds.show();
        ledStateChanged = false;
    }
}
 
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Just an update to this project. We made the first 3000+ LED panel prototype and video, image and MIDI to led block works. Since 1 Teensy controls now 12 * 256 led panels and it only take 6 channels from octo we decided to use the 2 remaining channels from Octo and go with 15 * 256 led panel setup per Teensy for the next build. Latest code can been found from here

 
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