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Thread: Windows XP support in 2015 and beyond

  1. #26
    Senior Member PaulStoffregen's Avatar
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    Microsoft could have, but didn't (yet) publish an update for Windows 7 to add the WinUSB Compatible-Id match.

    Until they either do that, or until the vast majority of Windows users upgrade to version 8 or 10 (or better yet, Mac or Linux), WinUSB simply doesn't look very attractive.

  2. #27
    Yes, winusb is not out of the box, but Paul to get Winusb on older xp/vista all you need to do is install a windows update. WinUSB v1.9 (KB971286). I bet you could even package this update with Teensyduino.

    I think the ability to just about every USB method at once should at least warrant an investigation to Teensy implementation.
    Isochronous, Bulk, control, interrupt transfers, Selective suspend, Remote wake. All at once is very attractive. Especially for those of us trying to develop complete solutions for project without being AVR experts

    Since i'm no expert you would probably have a better idea of the amount of work it would take to implement.

  3. #28
    Senior Member PaulStoffregen's Avatar
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    Do you have a direct link for the KB971286 file?

  4. #29
    It doesn't seem like winusb is available as a standalone package however if you have the Windows Driver Kit there is a guide to make a driver package which could be supplied to users.

    https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/lib...%29.aspx#howto

  5. #30
    Senior Member PaulStoffregen's Avatar
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    Can you understand my lack of enthusiasm for having to make an installer that includes not only an INF with signature requirements, but also a collection of DLLs?

  6. #31
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    Using windoze has my employer in multiple major pickles (not the Python serialization stuff).

    Currently have five Teensy 3.1 units installed inside some big Chroma test stacks in our TJ factory for test process monitors and to control the power-interrupt contactors. And, yes, the test-stack control computers are locked into winXP because it would cost over $150k USD to install Win7/8 boxes+update TestStand and CVI versions + update the PCI bus boards + update my feeble brain.

    Have another T3.1 monitoring temperatures and LN2 pressures for the HALT chamber which is just fine, but, yes, the chamber-control code can only run on XP. Have attempted virtualization, but not reliable or refuses to work for some stuff.

    Until old test hardware starts to disintegrate, methinks that many North American factories will continue to see prolific development and use of XP for remainder of decade. And the boss recently asked me for some modifications to the factory test harnesses, which will require that the associated CVI code be re-compiled under XP. Someone please shoot me...

  7. #32
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    Did you read the reports on how many ATMs worldwide rely on embedded XP?

  8. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by stevech View Post
    Did you read the reports on how many ATMs worldwide rely on embedded XP?
    I am active in this world and I don't think you would ever get approval/chance to connect a Teensy to one of those running in production.

    My 2 cents. There are still a lot of XP systems around and there probably will remain quite a lot of xp systems around in the near future. The main question here is "how much does that impact Teensy?"
    I see 2 groups of systems that are likely to stay with xp. One is the company systems that are to expensive to upgrade and two are the home users moving "low-level" systems to the workshop.
    The ATM machines you mention are in the first group. In my mind the first group has made a decision to live with the old os and as such is willing to pay the price. In short: "If you ever need to connect a Teensy to (or have a Teensy connected to) a machine in group one you are willing to develop in a old Teensy development version on a old development box running the same xp as the machines in production."
    So basically to keep these people happy you only need to support (or sell extended support ) for a Teensy development version that supports "XP SP3"

    And basically I think that will be good enough for the second group as well. I mean; if you use an old box in your workshop and you are running xp for development and deployment, are you really interested in faster USB and/or the latest add-ons to Teensy. Are you requesting Paul to spend time and energy to support new features on old systems so you can use the latest and greatest without you having to go to the effort of upgrading 1 system?

    My advice to Paul. Freeze a development version that is 100%isch compatible with XP and keep that one available for people who can't/don't want to upgrade. For the newer versions consider dropping XP support (no more xp tests).

    Best regards
    Jantje

  9. #34
    Senior Member PaulStoffregen's Avatar
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    I no longer test with Windows XP. As far as I know, everything probably still works fine on XP. Most stuff probably even works on Windows 2000, except Serial+Keyboard+Mouse+Joystick (which depends on IAD, which Microsoft added in XP-SP3 and was never added to 2k).

    It's unlikely anything that currently works will break on XP in the future.

    Later this year, I'm planning to add 3 more choices to the Tools > USB Type menu. Odds are good those will work on XP, but if they don't, I probably won't invest much effort for the sake of XP.

    Later this year or perhaps early 2016, I'm also planning to add some more features to the bootloader and Teensy Loader. Odds are slim that new stuff will work on XP. Odds are good anyone still developing on XP will be able to continue using the upload process that works today, but I do not plan to do much testing with XP.

    Whether Java and the Arduino IDE continue to support XP are anyone's guess. I typically drop support for older Arduino versions after about 1 year. Teensyduino 1.21 will probably be the last version to support Arduino 1.0.5, for example. If Oracle breaks Java on XP and the Arduino devs depend on a non-XP Java environment, I'm not going to keep supporting legacy software for more than about a year, and I'm certainly not going to pour lots of work into the Arduino IDE or Java just to support XP.

    My guess is anyone still using XP is probably already feeling the gradual loss of support from nearly all software. Teensy tends to use only very standard features, so Teensy support will probably outlast most other software.

    Long term, developing code for Teensy on XP will mean living without new capabilities that will only be available on Windows 7 or later (and of course modern Mac and Linux). Eventually it may not be possible to develop code for Teensy on Windows XP.

    Teensy programmed on newer systems, with any of the USB Type options that exist today, will very likely keep working with old XP systems.

  10. #35
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    The (above) reply is more than reasonable, and better than what has been received from most vendors. Mr. Stoffregen's information has been tabulated in an (evil) excel sheet for a report to management; which contains a link to series of messages during 2009/2010 warning about using windoze-based development tools.

    When I become Emperor and Grand Poobah, there will be no more windoze and the Java/JRE community will be required to submit their corporeal globs for daily abuse.

  11. #36
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    What will Oracle ultimately do with negative-profit Java/JRE? Donate it to open source (as was the fate of Sun's Solaris after Oracle acquired Sun)?

  12. #37
    Senior Member PaulStoffregen's Avatar
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    I should probably also mention I'm no longer testing Mac OS-X 10.5 or 10.6 (Leopard & Snow Leopard).

    I only test Linux using Ubuntu 12.04 (64 bit), and probably later this year I'll upgrade to 14.04.

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