Option to license boot loader as commercial company

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zachtos

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Hi, I'm looking for a new chip to prototype products with here, and am torn between mbed/teensy. I love the Teensy on paper since it has the libraries I really need (great audio, wifi, bluetooth, neopixel, LCD). The problem we would face heading into production is the cost per chip for the bootloader on custom boards. We would be doing 10,000+ hopefully w/in 2 years and we can't hit inventory shortages. Is it possible to license the bootloader, sign an non disclosure agreement, or just buy the hex with a non disclosure? It's a perfect fit and I'm trying to sell this idea since it will allow us to grow faster in this small company.

They are currently using CoIDE (like keil but opensource) and it's very slow to get development done from the contractors. I have a history with arduino (know it in and out, built many boards), so this is a great fit, powerful chip with great production price. I really dont want to send out programming cables to customers, so the ability to update firmware is very important. IE, plug in USB, open file, hit upload. Maybe have the GUI updated w/ our logo for a fee of course. I just feel this is the way to go for a very small company looking to develop fast and still keep reasonably low costs.


Thoughts?
 
If I can't get them to sign on w/ one of these options, the next step is me learning CoIDE/Keil, yuck. I'm the new on staff EE leading the oversea contractors, but they are not living up to my expectations for speed. I would rather not spend a year learning those tools with only Arduino knowledge and expect to surpass the contractor team abilities alone. If we can just make products that work, who cares, as long as we get them done fast to market w/ reasonable price?

Also, if you know of any other companies that may have went the route of mbeb/teensy and were fairly successful, that would make it a much easier sell.
 
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From experience, I can say that mbed was a great idea, executed poorly, and it's in late-stage-decline. The concept they have of a 2nd processor managing a file system of code (etc.) then boot the most recent code from that media - is great. For development. But adds too much expense for production. And CMSIS is not so hot. But then too, Arduino libraries are what they are, and I'd think twice about using it in 10K products shipped for operations, not experimenters.
 
Constantin said:
Hear hear. Also depends how mission-critical the task is. Embedded professionals rely on JTAG rigs for a reason.
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Well, we are a tiny company with ambition for a retail product. It will require software updates monthly by end users so it needs to be a simple update process. I don't know if we can find cheap JTAG programming cables or designs can we?

I really want to develop and maintain all code using the teensy because we can not find good contractors that can make complicated regular updates. In that case, we would be better off with paying the teensy $6/chip. I don't know if we could afford that high of a price if we get in a price war, but the first 1000 units would not be a big deal. I'm open to a Skype discussion or consultant suggestion as we are an established serious small gaming company looking for a new plan.
 
PaulStoffregen said:
We discount these chips to $6 in volume.

If you're unable to pay for chips, how will a licensing arrangement work?
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would you be able to meet that kind of demand for pre programmed chips in excess of 1000? IE, lead times. If not, then this plan will not even make it past discussion with the company president.
 
PaulStoffregen said:
Yes, easily.
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I will make an order for a handful of teensy 3.1 and audio boards to start porting over some of my original Arduino code. I am serious about making a new retail product and will happily help keep teensy funded via chip sales or license of some sort. Would you be available for a Skype meeting with my company in the near future? I'm trying to get them on board so I can work on a new retail product while they continue the commercial product line support using the same contractors and chipset (CoIDE and cortexM3).
 
I don't use skype.

PJRC does answer the phone (regular land-line phone service, not skype) during regular business hours, 8am to 4pm, M-F, Pacific time.

Please, only call if you have an urgent and truly important need. I understand you are attempting to make a commercial product, but I can not spend time teleconferencing to be present at a general business meeting for your company. PJRC has a tremendous number of day-to-day activities that demand my attention, and somehow with all that, I still sometimes manage to make progress on software and product development. (if you call and ask specifically for me, and then you don't have an urgent technical issue, you can expect me to be annoyed and not shy about it... I'm not known for being nice in such situations)

Especially if you're planning to use the audio library, it's in your best interest to avoid distracting my software development time. I've recently been working on the GUI front-end and soon I'm going to do much, much more with the audio library code, which should benefit you and many others.
 
Interesting reply to a potential business partnership. I will not call to use up your time then.

Please continue development and I will work on a batch of prototypes using your audio library among other existing Arduino user libraries. I will look forward to further updates and only contact you when we get close to mass production stages on the new line.
 
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