Arduino Board Manager

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PaulStoffregen said:
That's unlikely to happen anytime soon, but "never say never".
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The board manager configuration seems reasonably straightforward.
Build a JSON that describes your files and tools download, and the IDE puts it in the right place(s.)
The ESP8266 people whipped one up pretty quickly.
I bet you could do the same, and get out of the business of writing your own installers :)
 
Teensy has several features the Arduino IDE does not support by only using the boards manager. Especially the non-Serial modes in Tools > USB Type require substantial patches to the Arduino Serial Monitor.

For example, try making a MIDI controller on any other board. With Teensy, you can, and it create a class-compliant MIDI device that does NOT have a USB Serial interface. When you plug that MIDI controller you've made into a new Windows computer without the serial driver, Windows will NOT complain about a missing serial driver. Teensy is unique in the Arduino world with this ability.

But you can *still* use Serial.print() in that MIDI device and it will properly show up in the Arduino Serial Monitor. There are some very ugly USB MIDI hacks for Arduino Uno, for example, which involve reprogramming the USB chip. But then you lose Serial.print(). With Teensy, you can make MIDI devices and other non-serial stuff, and still use the serial monitor as normal, even when it's not actually a USB serial device. That magic requires special patches to the Arduino IDE.

Arduino new boards manager does not have the ability to install this special non-serial support, and a variety of other similar patches Teensy requires.
 
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PaulStoffregen said:
non-Serial modes in Tools > USB Type
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Interesting. Perhaps the Arduino IDE needs a little more mod-ability then. I wonder if they'd accept patches?

Regarding doing non-serial devices, there were some people using LUFA to do both joystick and serial, or MIDI and serial, on the u16 on the Uno R3. Granted, that's not a "main line" feature for that board, but it was totally possible.

I now understand the source of additional time needs to merge this work, though; thanks for sharing!
 
why is it that an URL have never been made?

It's a hell lot simpler that way

I tried but failed big time....

EDIT: Link: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/T...er/Added-Documents/SAV/package_sav_index.json

its for a board based on the teensy... in IDE 1.0.6 i simply install teensyduino and overwrite the boards.txt with my own

when i compile with the board manager url i came up with i get this error:

exec: "C:\\Users\\XX\\AppData\\Local\\Arduino15\\packages\\SAV MK1\\hardware\\avr/../tools/": file does not exist
Error compiling for board [BootloaderCDC]SAV-MkI.
 
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are these special support and patches not just files that neeed to be there? or do they overwrite org files from arduino?

EDIT: in the zip i made i have the cores, libs and bootloader
 
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The Teensyduino installer also patches the Java jar files and the examples.

Long-term (perhaps *very* long at the rate things are going...) I have plans to do some significant GUI-based customizations within the Arduino IDE, which can't be accomplished from the package manager.

I'm also really starting to get annoyed by the slowness of Arduino's new builder. If they don't improve it soon, we might go back to the Java-based approach with an improved caching layer I've been considering. Obviously that's quite a lot of IDE customization which the packages can't support.
 
Q: what can be exluded if people just want to upload a sketch?

for sure you dont need examples for that... what is the really bare minimum to upload a sketch?
 
boelle said:
what is the really bare minimum to upload a sketch?
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The absolute bare minimum is the .HEX file and Teensy Loader to upload it to your Teensy.

If you do not have the .HEX file, the bare minimum to compile it from the source is the sample Makefile and of course make.

There is NO SUPPORT for using Arduino without the full Teensyduino install. Perhaps you can make it work in various ways, but that isn't something I'm going to support (answer questions).
 
I know and I understand that for many users, the Arduino IDE is of vital importance because of its simplicity and widespread use, although it has many limitations in the eyes of an advanced software developer. That's why I (personally) would prefer a Teensyduino package (core, libraries, makefile) which is independent of the Arduino IDE but rather formed in a way that it can easily be installed and integrated into various, ways more functional IDEs like Eclipse, Netbeans, Xcode and so on.

I understand that this will most probably never happen, Paul has for sure better things to do. That's why I'll need to keep an Arduino IDE on my computer which I never use for developing, but only as a surrogate mother for the Teensyduino install while I'll continue developing in Eclipse which is configured to pick the needed Teensy stuff from the corresponding subfolders in the Arduino.app folder.
 
"The absolute bare minimum is the .HEX file and Teensy Loader to upload it to your Teensy."

I never used the teensy loader.... what i do for my board which is based on the teensy is to overwrite the boards.txt with one from the board maker. But yes i still install teensyduino
 
Theremingenieur said:
I know and I understand that for many users, the Arduino IDE is of vital importance because of its simplicity and widespread use, although it has many limitations in the eyes of an advanced software developer. That's why I (personally) would prefer a Teensyduino package (core, libraries, makefile) which is independent of the Arduino IDE but rather formed in a way that it can easily be installed and integrated into various, ways more functional IDEs like Eclipse, Netbeans, Xcode and so on.
...
Click to expand...
If you use Windows, there's Visual Micro and Visual GDB that can run the Arduino build proceedure or can be used as is a more professional IDE, as both use Visual Studio and optionally the boards files. Teensy is supported by Visual Micro; Visual GDB also supports SWD hardware debugging.

There's also Atollic True Studio which is Eclipse + GCC. And Rowley Crossworks. And others. These let you avoid the PITA config/install/sustain of, say, starting with bare metal Eclipse.

Maybe NXP/Freescale will follow suit with ST Micro, in releasing Eclipse + GCC as their own bundle, integrated with their GUI based pin mapper and their huge I/O driver library (HAL). This is ST's own offering, as well as IAR/Keil for the professionals - which are free for the size limited 32KB versions.

Lots of choices.
 
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Sorry, but IMNSHFO and after almost 30 years in software and database development, Windows is still not an option for a stable productive development computer. To me, Microsoft OSs appears like the Arduino IDE: They are widespread because of their ease to use, but they aren't the most efficient solutions.
 
Words "efficient" and even "easy" can mean different things, especially to different people.

Arduino is optimized to be easy to learn. That's not necessarily the same as easy to use, after you've gained some experience...
 
Theremingenieur said:
Windows is still not an option for a stable productive development computer. .
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A valid opinion, in the context of avocational purposes. For microprocessor (ARM) targets, companies like IAR and Keil have thrived by making high quality development/debug/trace/assessment tools for the professionals. So too smaller ones like Rowley. IAR's public disclosure shows about USD$40M in sales last CY. They sell developers' tools and not hardware. So too Keil, but they are now owned by ARM.

Those that have not walked in the shoes of embedded developers who get paid for productive labor, not labor wasted on tool making/adapting, might consider the broader picture.
These dev tool sellers with rare exception, sell Windows-based software - because that's where the revenue is. Automotive industry customers want safety compliance in software development and those tools and their compliance certifications are costly and lead the standards and certifiers to the mainstream. In other markets, the customers' customer most often are in the mainstream where Host comptuers and servers are enterprise/Microsoft. Just the way it is. The professionals are driven by what customers require and that means work and that supports the family's quality of life.

There's a lot at stake in these commercial projects: The one I'm on for the last year uses my code in a Cortex M4 and the first pilot production run is imminent, with 650K units.

This forum venue is almost exclusively for students and hobbyists readers. That's a good but vastly different world.
 
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Paul - I just discovered what may be a common cause of 'Rebuilding All" - noted on this thread: Build-options-changed-rebuilding-all
HINT: Don't rebuild a Read-only Library example without saving it 'privately' first and the Rebuilding All goes away - until some 'Tools' change.


True enough stevech - reality and the real world typically feed on each other. When I had a day job it was all built from the command line - I could use any text editor I wanted - just like the hundreds (or thousands) of others in the codebase at the time.

Picking up the Arduino IDE was indeed easy and for the small projects I've done so far it builds efficiently enough on my soon to be 5 year old i5 laptop. If it was slower or more problematic I'd buy a new computer or use my 3X faster desktop and put Visual Micro on it - I tried it last year on VS 2013 just as the new IDE updates broke it and haven't felt compelled to do it again yet.

It is my opinion that Windows has long been the benchmark for a stable productive development computer. No doubt there are better alternatives - for some users in some situations. Most cars over $70,000 are clearly superior - but :
The estimated average transaction price of a new car or truck sold in the U.S. in April 2015 was $33,560
Click to expand...
 
defragster said:
It is my opinion that Windows has long been the benchmark for a stable productive development computer. No doubt there are better alternatives - for some users in some situations.
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Agree. And $80 every 5 years for MS windows is not a killer. And in this kind of forum, each to his own!!!
 
The board manager is almost handy for ESP8266 - nice to know when it changes since I don't follow them as closely as Teensy.

With TeensyInstaller is nice to know you can edit the build tree and get it back with an install overwrite if you forgot to save something. And it is in a controlled place - not in "hidden...\AppData\Local\...whoknowswhere". Also with TeensyInstaller you can have 2 or more independent installs in the case an IDE upgrade breaks something, or while TeensyInstaller Beta Testing. With Board Manager it is common SHARED across aware installs that hit that directory - if you break one, you break them all.

The bonus feature that PJRC can identify and fix/correct/customize the IDE to maximize Teensy would be worth it alone. The IDE "UPDATE you idiot" popups are annoying with Board manager - I don't know about or trust or use some of the stuff they 'advertise' and I don't want to pull down the latest of something I don't use to find it somehow broke something I did use.

So even if it was free and easy - I don't see it as helpful on Teensy.

stevech - and Win10 is still free and a good upgrade to Win7 - even better if you got handed Win8 - and if you got stuck on Vista it is time for a new machine or to buy some relief to get Win10. My opinion is really biased I'll admit ... I got a Raspberry Pi Zero and it was as fun as editing win.ini, system.ini, autoexec.bat, config.sys were back before Win95 - luckily the OS is free.
 
defragster said:
stevech - and Win10 is still free and a good upgrade to Win7 - even better if you got handed Win8 - and if you got stuck on Vista it is time for a new machine or to buy some relief to get Win10. My opinion is really biased I'll admit ... I got a Raspberry Pi Zero and it was as fun as editing win.ini, system.ini, autoexec.bat, config.sys were back before Win95 - luckily the OS is free.
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Yes, win 10 "upgrade" is free but will expire some time, months out as I recall. I use win 7 on my laptop and desktop. But on the desktop, I cloned the usual 512GB SSD I use to an older spinning disk using Acronis. Then I booted that clone disk. Then I took the free win 10 update. I then reverted to the original SSD for booting. So I have the free win 10 to use if I must. On my laptop, I use win 10 to see if I can get used to it. I disabled the tablet UI stuff and the tiles off the start menu. So now I have win 10 somewhat like Win 7. Haven't had the fights to get my LAN and NAS to work properly. MS went to a no product KEY situation in Win 10. They somehow keep an encrypted license control - one place said it's in the UEFI BIOS eeprom. But my laptop is too old for UEFI - it's a Dell E6500, some 5 yrs old, core 2.
On my desktop, I do have a Sun/Oracle's VM and it boots to Mac OSX. Just for the heck of it. And I have a disk that boots Linux Mint. On my laptop, I installed freeware Open Office to see if it would not barf up some complex Word documents and Excel spreadsheets. But there are quite a few programs I use frequently that are Windows-only: IAR, Quicken, some flash loaders, and others.
 
The offer of Free Upgrade Expires - end of July or something - but once installed is good for life of the machine. How they track and control that is a good question. Drives will be changed and memory and video and other stuff that make a machine signature.

Even today when booting a Win10 install CD - they want to charge you - you must run install from an active OS Win7/8. Down the road a toasted Win10 machine will look the same - or down the road you could just clone a Win10 box HDD for a new computer with a new HDD, put it anywhere and have it install a working 10.
 
About 1-2 years ago, MS stopped selling Windows "Retail" licensed. Forcing system builders to buy the OEM license which is non-transferrable, with exceptions. I found a small company in Washington state still selling downloadable Retail licenses, legit. They said they cannot get more.
So as was the case, and more so now, you call MS support and act dumb and say your DIY PC's motherboard failed and they aren't made any more. Give them your OEM license number and, I've heard, they usually will reinstate with an exception. If declined, I've read that you call back and get to someone more sympathetic. I've read, not tried this. I recently called their support line and a polite, competent person helped me with Win 10 full reinstall (unsaid: because I borked the Start Menu trying out some freeware classic start menu). The guy did walk me through how to download and make a bootable USB flash drive to do a full reinstall and the license remained valid, even on this old laptop. I dunno. But MS didn't demand a support fee for most of an hour's work.

Worst case you pop for $80 or $100 for an OEM license and hope you don't have to do this but every several years. Fair enough cost, per me.

I'm more worried about Apple and MS pushing the cloud and a return to ye ole mainframe concepts of who controls your software and where it is, and what about non-mainstream folks.
 
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Surprised the installer fails, even more surprised there's no Boards Manager solution

PaulStoffregen said:
That's unlikely to happen anytime soon, but "never say never".
Click to expand...

It's fair to say this isn't ideal so why bother (at least anytime soon), but then it's more important that PJRC's installer works. I'm having what seems like this exact problem from years ago:

https://forum.pjrc.com/threads/29548-Teensyduino-Install-Error

I just downloaded the install bundle today and tried to install it on my Dell Latitude 3440 running 64 bit Windows 10 Pro and as you can see I am running as admin and don't have the Arduino IDE running:

teensyFail.jpg

Hopefully even a less-than-full-featured Boards Manager install is something worth considering since for the customer that would be a very easy way to get the Teensy working, although the recent comments here (reply starts with "Ha") sounds not at all promising:

https://twitter.com/pwillard/status/960956248916144128

The gist of this forum thread seems to be this error doesn't happen to any significant degree but I wonder if it's actually much more common: after all it's evidently been frustrating customers for years and it's a bit of a hassle to create an account, activate it by email, etc, just to let you know about something that is not news to you and that seems very unlikely to accomplishing anything so you probably almost never hear about it when it does happen.
 
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