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Thread: Process of how to make a finished product with Teensy

  1. #1

    Process of how to make a finished product with Teensy

    Hello everyone, sorry if the questions will be low-level,
    but I would like to know the process of how to make a finished product after using the teensy and other hardware as a development platform, then:

    1) the code compiled with teensyduino allow this? obviously based on the license of the individual libraries.

    2) if the teensy reproduced may be used as an OEM?

    3) after the design of a board, it is required to obtain licenses of conformity to distribute a product? if so what?

    if there are other things to consider, I would be pleased to know.

    thank you all for your time.

  2. #2
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    The one thing you won't be able to "copy" is the bootloader, but you can buy the bootloader chip pre-programmed on pjrc.com.
    Search for "bootloader" and you'll find lots of helpful info on why that has to be that way etc.
    You could also make a board that would accommodate the Teensy as it is sold, directly soldered for example, plus your own peripherals. You could make a board with a cutout exactly the size of the Teensy etc. That way you won't have to remake the wheel. Although schematics and everything except bootloader are readily available on the main site.

  3. #3
    thank you for your reply,
    I've read that the finished products, should overcome some test to be sold, such as EMC, in europe the CE, etc.. etc.
    This is not mandatory? what is the cost approx?
    Or you can just stay in a sell range of products from hobby / workshop?

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    Don't pin me on the following, but this is how I understand it.
    In the EU you are obliged to have a CE marking.
    There is an escape with the CE directive, since this applies to FINISHED products. It does not apply for components. So if you deliver the parts in kit form, the consumer is responsible and as a consumer you do not have to have CE markings for DIY stuff.
    But I do not know what a kit form is. If you deliver a PCB and the housing separately, is this enough to be considered a kit?

  5. #5
    So if I wanted to make a finished product, as I understand the various licenses of compliance would cost much,
    so only reality effective for a small person is realize itself for products for DIY.
    Or there are companies that offer the possibility of realization at reasonable prices?

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    Others here have probably jumped through the hoops themselves but the numbers I've seen for kickstarter projects seeking certification (at least for mains powered devices) have been at 50k.

    example
    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects.../posts/1149647

    So not impossible for an individual but you'd better be planing to vast amount of a single product. That said the example was for a mains powered RF device so in many ways worst case.

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    how to make a finished product
    3) after the design of a board, it is required to obtain licenses...
    After reading again, I do not know if you are talking only about a board or a complete finished product. In general all these adafruit kind of boards are considered components. Eg. the Teensy is a component.

  8. #8
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    anything mains powered requires lots of certifications. Even so, organizations in the manufacturing and selling chains are at risk for lawsuits from individuals, class action and insurance companies (e.g., fire damages).
    In some countries, this is all just ignored or the target of liability just dissolves the company and hides.

    There's also the US FCC Part 15 to register test certifications. That's US$15K and much higher. Starting with an already FCC (et al) certified radio module PCB (rather than a chip) sometimes reduces/eliminates these costs. The Digi XBee is an example - it's certified in about 10 countries (regulatory domains) - and the config must vary, e.g., Japan/France have more stringent radiated power and emissions mask requirements. One middle-eastern country has a regulation prohibiting use of 2.4GHz outdoors (enforce that!)

    Product biz is hard stuff (China excepted)
    Last edited by stevech; 05-02-2015 at 08:46 PM.

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    In the EU, you need to CE mark your product and sign a 'Declaration of Conformity', which basically says, 'Yes, my product complies with all of the relevant directives'. Now, the trick to this is, you don't necessarily have to get it actually tested in order to sign it.

    However. If someone suspects that it is causing issues due to EMI or similar, and it ends up being tested and fails, you as the person who signed that certificate are at fault and can be liable. (There can be some quite heavy repercussions of this).

    Regarding mains; mains opens up a whole other can of worms. If you can avoid using mains in your design, I'd try and do so. In that way, you can stay under the Low Voltage Directive (part of CE ) and avoid a while bunch of other directives your product would need to stay clear under.

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    Oh please shoot me - am about to talk compliance. The 'CE' mark means only that the mfr has published a declaration of conformity (see ISO17050-x) where the scoped directives are stated along with the basis for the presumption of conformity to the directives, and some other messy text. A "finished product" product for the EU or EFTA states that is placed on the market cannot be considered a component unless the equipment has no function by itself, think passives and some semiconductors, and even then, there are some passives (X and Y caps) and semiconductors that are not acceptable without the mark of a National Body and/or the 'CE'. If the device has an intentional RF radiator, than the RTTE directive applies, where there is no lower voltage limit to scoped products. For equipment not to be scoped by the Low Voltage Directive it must not be mains-connected, and cannot contain a battery, and cannot have a motor, and cannot emit radiation or classified toxic materials, and must be rated < 75Vdc or 50Vac. So if not scoped by the Toy, LVD, or RTTE directives, the only MARKING directives that would apply are the RoHS directive and the General Product Saftey directive and the EMC directive.

    While there are many variations on the definition of a safe product, most standards and directives and regulations provide that safe equipment does not:
    emit toxic stuff
    emit interferring radiation
    emit hazardous radiation
    become a fire or shock hazard for any normal or abnormal mode of operation
    become a fire of shock hazard during or after any single fault condition
    do one of the above after any type of 'forseeable misuse'

    Welcome to the most vile and onerous part of my work-life.

  11. #11
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    I have developed some limited series of 'finished products' built around Teensy (actually, they were more like working prototypes I sold). They did require that you buy a Teensy from PJRC or a reseller tho, except for a few where I used blank MK20 chips and the Mini54 chip bought from PJRC.

    As for the matter of CE, that is self certification as mentioned above. Only for a few things you have to go through so called notified bodies, but not for low voltage products. You are however responsible when something later on doesn't appear to be conform regulations such as EMC.

    I only sold to professional clients, so it's less of a risk there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Epyon View Post
    As for the matter of CE, that is self certification as mentioned above. Only for a few things you have to go through so called notified bodies, but not for low voltage products. You are however responsible when something later on doesn't appear to be conform regulations such as EMC.

    I only sold to professional clients, so it's less of a risk there.
    The CE mark does not indicate "self certification', as certification indicates accreditation, it only indicates some dear soul on the planet has published a Declaration of Conformity for that product. As as a resident of an EU state, this (non subtle) difference may help you avoid fines. The EU's 'NLF' style directives provide increased market surveillance and oversight along with additional authority to fine the signatory on the D of C. If there is no D of C for a CE-marked product, and there is no Technical Construction File to provide a basis for the presumption of conformity, then it can be become a criminal matter, depending on the whims of the local regulators. And this is, in fact, the situation that the good people in Brussels intended.

    As this babble is being typed, my employer has customers in Ireland and Germany that are facing fines and (probably) the eventual posting of the product on a list that will essentially ban the product from the EFTA, because they did exactly what I told them not to do. To quote the fine young man in Germany - "He is an American engineer not qualified to comment on such issues that would apply to our regulations."

    To others reading this crap that are not using the wondrous and obscenely fun PJRC products only for internal projects. North American regulations all require that electrical equipment that is for sale and for use in the workplace bear the mark of an NOM/NRTL/SCC (Mexico/US/Canada) accredited lab. The EU requires that all products offers for sale ("placed on the market") meet the essential requirements of the scoped directives. The new Low Voltage and EMC directives (effective april 2016) will reduce some of the previous category exemptions. The onus is on the manufacturer to determine scope.

    Finally simplified some definitions.
    1. Conformity - quality of a product, the model ABC conforms to standard x.
    2. compliance - quality of a company, XYZ Corp complies with regulation x.
    3. certify/certification - statement of assessment per a properly scoped standard/regulation/directive
    4. accreditation - statement of assessment on the competence of a body and/or individual

    Sources to tame this madness
    1. The IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society has an active listserv, where all manner of regulatory issues are discussed, to include energy eff, EMC, chemistry, physics, and safety.
    2. There are several more specialized LinkedIn groups that are more speacilized, but frequented by experts.
    3. NRTLs and SCCs such as CSA, ETL, MET, TUV Rheinland, and UL have extensive information on websites and do frequent webinars on various compliance and regulatory issues.
    4. Not legally binding, but the EU publishes the authoratative 'Blue Guide'http://ec.europa.eu/DocsRoom/documen...ditions/native
    5. OHSA requirements, per the NRTL program, are found in 29CFR1910.

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    Currently the product that we have made is the design of the teensy 3.1 using pjrc bootloader.
    I'm using two of each, CPU and bootloader and a video buffer.
    Last week or the week before we passed the EMC test. The unit that was an issue was the cable between the display controller board and the display.. 2 Ferrite took care of that. (this is being used in the Medical field.
    The next test from late last week to this week has passed (the one they bombard with RF signals and Static Electricity test. It blinked, but that was because of the video cable of 25 feet. We passed that test.
    Now onto the next 4 weeks or less for safety.
    So can it be done.. Yes.. I used Diptrace and made the board per what I read.
    Signals to my Interface board.
    1 9600 baud serial connection (for interfacing new P-Cap touchscreen to old technology. Works like a charm, might even be better than the old. People are impressed! (One teensy3.1 circuit used (1 Serial for TS at 57600 and the other 9600)
    2 proprietary video inputs, 1 is a pass thru while one is a buffer to drive an RGB 15 pin (RGB shorted). This is interface to a programmable display driver for a 32" LED 1,000 nit.
    2 9600 baud connections for placing the display to sleep or ambient light.
    The old was 2 CRTS with a IR touch on one display. The CRTs had AC in, Video in via BNC and a Serial interface for updating the CRT parameters and display levels. These are 2 x 9600 baud with echo and data.
    The LED display does not need horz, vert setups, just brightness control.
    This product is plan to be out next month. People are waiting for this..

    So yes.

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    Am impressed Wayne, well done. Few IEC60601-1-2 (medical EMC) submittals make it through the assessment process without much pain and cost and design re-spins.

    If your test lab made no glaring errors on the report, and your Risk Analysis is complete, enjoy your ride with the wonderful people at the FDA and HealthCanada. Note to lurkers - immunity for medical stuff is significantly more difficult than ITE. ESD is 8kV/15kV and really honkin 30A/m test levels.

    What did you use for shielding and signal terminations?

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    @BJB, just out of interrest, since you seem much more informed, with respect to the following lines:
    North American regulations all require that electrical equipment that is for sale ..
    The EU requires that all products offers for sale ...
    could you comment on my remark I made that certification only applies for finished products? IOW, does what you say also apply for Adafruit kind of boards?
    If itdoes apply, could you comment on where is the border between a component and a board. I do not see certifications on IC's, so eg what about boards with a IC footprint? Eg If I would mold my teensy with plastic, how to differentiate it from an IC?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kpc View Post
    @BJB, just out of interrest, since you seem much more informed, with respect to the following lines:

    could you comment on my remark I made that certification only applies for finished products? IOW, does what you say also apply for Adafruit kind of boards?
    If itdoes apply, could you comment on where is the border between a component and a board. I do not see certifications on IC's, so eg what about boards with a IC footprint? Eg If I would mold my teensy with plastic, how to differentiate it from an IC?
    There has been legal and technical controversy over this EU regulatory definition; that is, what is an end-use item, what is operable equipment, what is a display-only unit, what is an evaluation unit, what is a component, what is 'placing on market' and whether doggies or kittehs make better pets. These definitions are defined in the scoped directives and amending documents, which used to be an easter-egg hunt, but has become more harmonized per the next-gen NLF directives that will become effective between now and next few years.

    To be safe, all of the board assemblies found on sparkfun, adafruit, etc should bear the 'CE' mark to avoid EFTA import problems. Where the item has no identifiable independent operational mode, the Declaration of Conformity can be limited to RoHS, which is now a marking directive. And a bare board could also bear the mark, but only RoHS would be in the D of C. Processor boards such as a Teensy are functional by their lonesome, so could have D of C to RoHS, EMC, and GPS directive. Anything having an intentional radiator would also have to be assessed per essential requirements of the RTTE (RED next year) directive, which has no lower voltage limit so would have a TRF per EN60950-1 or EN62368-1, or EN61010-1(there are many other harmonized product safety standards in the RTTE, but these are typically scoped). If the board is not intentional radiator, and only uses logic-level voltages, the Low Voltage Directive is not scoped for stuff under 75Vdc, so the 'basic' DofC to RoHS and GPS would be indicated; and citing the EMC directive could be ignored for most stuff, but be prepared to provide rationale.

    Many EU directives have official, but not legally binding, guides that are helpful for scope determination. Note following
    http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/secto...0208_v3_en.pdf

    http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/secto.../lvdgen_en.pdf

    http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/secto...9-04-20_en.pdf

    http://ec.europa.eu/environment/wast...ee/pdf/faq.pdf

    http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/cons_s...ce_gpsd_en.pdf

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    Thanks BJB for the links. I found this text in the blue guide 2014
    However, in some cases, a combination
    of different products and parts designed or put together by the same person is considered as one finished product which has
    to comply with the legislation as such. In particular, the manufacturer of the combination is responsible for selecting suitable
    products to make up the combination, for putting the combination together in such a way that it complies with the provisions
    of the laws concerned, and for fulfilling all the requirements of the legislation in relation to the assembly, the EU Declaration of
    Conformity and CE marking.
    I am no lawyer, but this seems to imply that even kits where you have to solder every component yourself should have CE marking. But like you said there was some controversy. I know this is a guide, but how can you have clear guidelines when you start a sentence with the words: "In some cases ..."

  18. #18
    i have found this document that explain some guide line for their product integration...
    http://www.telegesis.com/download/do...roval%20CE.pdf

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    Quote Originally Posted by TronicLabs View Post
    i have found this document that explain some guide line for their product integration...
    http://www.telegesis.com/download/do...roval%20CE.pdf
    Looks like they did a decent job of explaining compliance requirements, at least for the EU/EFTA.

    @kpc - There is an old axiom among regulatory people: CE + CE != CE
    That is, just because all of the sub-assemblies are CE-marked does not indicate you necessarily have a basis for presumption of conformity, it just makes it much easier to write a report for equipment that uses components that have already been evaluated per EMC and safety regs; also can significantly decrease test time/cost when doing a formal submittal.

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