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Thread: Zerynth (formerly Viper) vs MicroPython

  1. #1
    Senior Member PaulStoffregen's Avatar
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    Zerynth (formerly Viper) vs MicroPython

    Does anyone know about Zerynth? Is it related to MicroPython, or something completely different?

    Zerynth reached out to me a couple times recently. They're having a board interest survey.

    http://www.zerynth.com/blog/how-to-p...-with-zerynth/

    MicroPython support has become a commonly requested feature lately. I'm planning to look into porting & contributing libraries to improve their support for Teensy.

    So far, I can only recall one person (stevech) specifically talk about Viper. Should I spend time working with Zerynth (with the understanding it'll somewhat dilute my other efforts)?

  2. #2
    Senior Member+ defragster's Avatar
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    They have a IDE / UI! I wonder if Zerynth would speak to this info to compare?

    1,399 backers signed up for 28,534 this KS ESP8266 port of Micropython : micropython-on-the-esp8266-beautifully-easy-iot I never did anything after backing for a few bucks. They added various hardware and software - details from update below. They don't support a 512MB ESP8266 but Zerynth seems to (on 512MB the SPIFFS would be too small to have much value even if the code fits).

    I wonder if they are using that port of the 'official' (?) software - that would be ESP8266 - but it would show they are able to incorporate what I assume is a custom full feature ESP8266 core - and could do the same and extend for Teensy.

    This list shows what the ESP8266 should be expected to do - mostly since it has onboard WiFi. A Teensy could do the hardware stuff better but need Ethernet/WiFi for connectivity and SD to equal the filesystem - the new Teensy 3.5/3.6 would be good for all that - the T_3.2 might be a stretch?

    This from their UPDATE in MAY ::
    We fully support a BSD socket API implementation.
    We have a filesystem with long filenames and subdirectories (based on FatFs library).
    An almost-complete MicroPython hardware API is implemented for the ESP8266. There's support for GPIO (with attached interrupts), I2C, SPI, UART, PWM, ADC and deep-sleep.
    Beyond the standard hardware API, 1-Wire bus support is implemented, with driver for DS18B20 temperature sensor and OLED I2C driver.
    WebREPL, an interactive prompt in a browser, is provided for easy wireless interacting with a board.
    Moving forward, we will be providing support via the forum and GitHub, fixing bugs (yes there will be some!), and gradually implementing the stretch goals which are:
    MQTT client (high priority)
    OTA firmware updates
    environmental sensor library
    a micro database
    native code support for Xtensa
    upip support to download MicroPython modules
    (micro)asyncio support for cooperative multitasking

  3. #3
    Senior Member duff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulStoffregen View Post
    Should I spend time working with Zerynth (with the understanding it'll somewhat dilute my other efforts)?
    Can Viper clone you too? Looks like they use GPL3 license for there free stuff (RTOS) etc... So you would have to say it's powered by "Viper" which i guess sounds kinda cool if you make any thing with it that the user expects to sell?

  4. #4
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    Looks like Micropython is getting some momentum, Adafruit has just added a section in their Learn category for Micropython. For what its worth I tried to get Zeynth running on a Particle Photon several times with no luck ( Windows issues).

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    Hello,
    I am Daniele one of the co-founder of Zerynth.
    being responsible for electronics and systems integration at Zerynth I knew Teensy since the 3.1.
    So, when I saw the new Teensy campaign on Kickstarter I decided to write Paul a message.

    I read all your comments and I appreciated the analysis you did.

    Here some Q&A that I hope can help you to better understand what Zerynth is and what we would like to do with the Teensy board and community:

    Did Zerynth forks an implementation of MicroPython?
    Absolutely not. Zerynth is an implementation of a Virtual Machine for Python optimized for the embedded environment, running on top of a Realtime OS (ChibiOS and FreeRTOS at the moment). Therefore, some Python features have been removed and some other features more suitable for the embedded have been added. For a more detailed comparison take a look here. Everything has been developed from scratch by us in 2014/15, thanks to the support of a Kickstarter Campaign.

    Is it 100% Open Source?
    At the moment yes. However, we are switching only the virtual machine to a closed source model. All the rest (IDE; Toolchain; Cloud Components; etc) will be kept opensource under MIT or Apache licenses. More info on the reasons of the switch here

    Can you develop commercial applications with a Teensy board programmed with Zerynth?
    Sure you can! The Zerynth pricing schema will be soon published on our website with all the detail related to the commercial use of the Zerynth VM.

    Why did the name change from VIPER to Zerynth?
    We explain it here Basically, we needed a more recognizable name, since Viper was used too much by many other companies (and some of them where even not that happy )

    Does Zerynth support the ESP8266?
    Yes it does, info here

    Can I use Zerynth code developed for another board on the Teensy?
    Yes, this is the power of having a Virtual Machine and a Real-Time OS running on your board. Zerynth abstracts the hardware. If we will do the porting of Zerynth on Teensy all the examples, libraries and projects developed in Zerynth will run as they are also on the Teensy

    Does Zerynth run on the Particle Photon using a Windows machine for programming it?
    Some users have had issues with the new USB drivers of Win 10 but now everything is fixed as documented here
    (@cartere please test it again and let me know, I'll be glad to support you in fixing the issue you found)

    What Zerynth asks to PJRC and/or Teensy community?
    Just try our tool and if you like it spread the word otherwise tell us how to improve it

    Please don't hesitate to ask me any other question.
    Best

  6. #6
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    Hello, I'm Luigi from Zerynth.

    I'm very glad to be a guest of this forum.

    Yesterday there was an interesting thread on our forum about the differences between Zerynth and Micropython and I think you could be interested in reading it. Here is the link: https://community.zerynth.com/discus.../#Comment_1016

    In summary:
    - Zerynth has a smaller footprint
    - Zerynth features a RTOS for multithreading
    - Zerynth supports C-Python programming
    - Zerynth has a cross-platform IDE built on a command line toolchain
    - License is different
    - Zerynth aims at becoming a professional vertical stack for the embedded and iot worlds

    Hope it helps!

  7. #7
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    Hey

    Teensy had a very good results on the Zerynth Python for Microcontroller new board survey.
    It is the third most voted board!
    http://www.zerynth.com/blog/python-f...the-winner-is/

  8. #8
    Senior Member+ manitou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulStoffregen View Post
    Should I spend time working with Zerynth (with the understanding it'll somewhat dilute my other efforts)?
    I've experimented quite a bit with pyboard, and just a little with zerynth on DUE. The interpreter for both take up about 260KB of flash. I don't like the fact that zerynth is going to a closed-source VM. With the pyboard, I have diddled some with the core to utilize additional hardware features or provide a faster interface. The real question might be life-expectancy and market share (or community support).

    I'm not sure I'd recommend burning many Paul-cycles for supporting either. Hoping that others would do the port and Paul would only need to advise.

    I was enchanted by the clever live-test of pyboard: http://micropython.org/live/
    Last edited by manitou; 10-12-2016 at 09:16 PM.

  9. #9
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    Well off topic now but that Micropython web demo really is pretty cool. Wish more IOT projects did something similar since it really shows the work. And also makes a pretty useful tutorial resource.

    Would question what the gain is after porting it to a Teensy when there are already perfectly good Python boards available that are probably a better fit for an 'almost OS'.

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