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Thread: Teensy 3.6 diy board

  1. #1
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    Teensy 3.6 diy board

    Hello,
    i want to use teensy 3.6 in a project i'm working on.
    The teensy's board is relatively small but in order to work with only one board i want to include it in mine.
    I'll use this schematic:

    https://www.pjrc.com/teensy/schematic.html

    The microcontroller MK66FX1M0V has two versions:

    1)MK66FX1M0VMD18 ---> MAPBGA
    2)MK66FX1M0VLQ18 ---> LQFP

    In teensy 3.6 schematic i see that the first one is used(MAPBGA(MK66FX1M0VMD18)).
    If i use the second version (LQFP(MK66FX1M0VLQ18)) in my board,the bootloader chip MKL02 will be able to program it?

    Thanks.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by thanos View Post
    Hello,
    i want to use teensy 3.6 in a project i'm working on.
    The teensy's board is relatively small but in order to work with only one board i want to include it in mine.
    I'll use this schematic:

    https://www.pjrc.com/teensy/schematic.html

    The microcontroller MK66FX1M0V has two versions:

    1)MK66FX1M0VMD18 ---> MAPBGA
    2)MK66FX1M0VLQ18 ---> LQFP

    In teensy 3.6 schematic i see that the first one is used(MAPBGA(MK66FX1M0VMD18)).
    If i use the second version (LQFP(MK66FX1M0VLQ18)) in my board,the bootloader chip MKL02 will be able to program it?

    Thanks.
    the K66-beta1 and beta2 used the larger LQFP chips, i.e. not the BGA one.

  3. #3
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    So i can i use the version lqfp,the bootloader chip MKL02 will be able to program it?
    Would not i have a problem so;
    Last edited by thanos; 11-15-2016 at 10:21 AM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by thanos View Post
    So i can i use the version lqfp,the bootloader chip MKL02 will be able to program it?
    Would not i have a problem so;
    should wait for Paul, but I vaguely recall that actual PJRC sold MKL02 are not programmed yet for MK66, but are planned
    See also https://forum.pjrc.com/threads/30636...l=1#post123680

  5. #5
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    Thanks wmxz,will wait newest by Paul Stoffregen.

  6. #6
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    Can you help me please?

  7. #7
    Senior Member PaulStoffregen's Avatar
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    The MKL02 and MKL04 chips we're shipping today do not yet support Teensy 3.5 and 3.6. They will in the future, but I do not have a firm time frame for when they will be updated.

    When they are updated in the future, you can use either BGA or LQFP.

    I am also planning to publish a reference board design on OSH Park, using the LQFP chip and MKL04 chip. That also does not have a firm time frame at this point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulStoffregen View Post
    The MKL02 and MKL04 chips we're shipping today do not yet support Teensy 3.5 and 3.6. They will in the future, but I do not have a firm time frame for when they will be updated.
    When they are updated in the future, you can use either BGA or LQFP.
    Bad news.

    Paul if from tennsy 3.6 that i have i get the bootloader chip



    you could will be able to program it the version LQFP?I could do my job until updated MKL02 and MKL04 chips?
    Asks why hurry to deliver a my project.

    Thanks paul.
    Last edited by thanos; 11-16-2016 at 07:06 PM.

  9. #9
    Senior Member PaulStoffregen's Avatar
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    If you desolder a MKL02 chip from a Teensy 3.5 or 3.6, it ought to work with a blank MK64FX512 or MK66FX1M0 LQFP chip. This hasn't been specifically tested, but I'm very confident it would work, if you're able to do the (very difficult) desoldering properly, and of course if the custom board with LPFP you solder it onto is properly designed.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulStoffregen View Post
    ...and of course if the custom board with LPFP you solder it onto is properly designed.
    Paul will use the same scematic,will i have problem?

    https://www.pjrc.com/teensy/schematic.html

    Differences in the microcontrollers MK66FX1M0VMD18 - MK66FX1M0VLQ18 does not exist,
    the only thing that changes it's the package/case(MAPBGA,LQFP).So i can use the same scematic.
    Correctly?

    Thanks.

  11. #11
    Senior Member PaulStoffregen's Avatar
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    The chips aren't perfectly identical pinout, as documented by Freescale's manual. Some pins are NC on BGA but have functions on LQFR. You'll need to sort out the details. It's not difficult.

    You can post questions here, but please understand I do not get substantially involved in the design or troubleshooting of your custom PCB. I sometimes comment on some of those questions, but you shouldn't expect that. You're making your own PCB, which is far beyond the level of direct support I can provide, even if you're buying the MKL02/MKL04 chips.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulStoffregen View Post
    Some pins are NC on BGA but have functions on LQFR. You'll need to sort out the details. It's not difficult.
    Paul i looked the pinout and the two chips(mapbga-lqfp) and i found only a difference

    MAPBGA ---> RTC_WAKEUP_B ---> L5
    LGFP ---> RTC_WAKEUP_B ---> NOT USED

    all the others were the same.
    The pins NC (A10,B10,C10,M5) what functions have.The datasheet not indicate something about these things pins.

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulStoffregen View Post
    Υou'll need to sort out the details.It's not difficult.
    These changes have to do with software and not to hardware.Correctly?
    Last edited by thanos; 11-17-2016 at 05:06 PM.

  13. #13
    Senior Member PaulStoffregen's Avatar
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    Please understand I do not get substantially involved in the design or troubleshooting of your custom PCB.

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    Paul i don't want to help me to design pcb.
    Τhe only thing want is to replied to my questions in the post #12.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by thanos; 11-20-2016 at 03:53 PM.

  15. #15
    Senior Member PaulStoffregen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thanos View Post
    Τhe only thing want is to replied to my questions in the post #12.
    When we start shipping preprogrammed MKL02 & MLK04 chips that support LC, 3.2, 3.5 & 3.6, I will publish a reference board on OSH Park. It will be very similar to the round 1 & 2 beta test boards, but using the MLK04 chip, and it will include the USB host power circuitry that wasn't on those early betas.

    Even when the reference board is published (it will be an OSH Park shared board, not a schematic), you can expect most answers to be a referral to the known-good reference board.

    For your own PCB design, you must refer to Freescale's documentation. As a general rule, I don't assist with these custom PCB design questions. It's your PCB. To the degree your design is similar to the published Teensy designs, you can save quite a lot of effort. But anywhere your design differs, it's your job to sort of the small details.

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    Pau in post #11 you have written:

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulStoffregen View Post
    Some pins are NC on BGA but have functions on LQFR. You'll need to sort out the details. It's not difficult.
    Which functions do you mean??The pins NC(no connected) not connected anywhere,explain please.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by thanos View Post
    Pau in post #11 you have written:



    Which functions do you mean??The pins NC(no connected) not connected anywhere,explain please.
    Com'on, you can see the pinout difference in freescale's document. If it does not explain Paul's comment, forget about it and design your board.
    IMO, designing a board that should be better than the original, requires either the skill, you surely have, and/or the will to fail. But that is part of the game: trying, failing, learning.

  18. #18
    Senior Member PaulStoffregen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thanos View Post
    The pins NC(no connected) not connected anywhere,explain please.
    For this level of PCB design assistance, you really need to hire a consultant.

    OneHorse is a regular here who has considerable experience. He's helped (on a paid consulting basis) with many successful PCB designs. I recommend you contact him to see if he will help you, and what rates he might charge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WMXZ View Post
    Com'on, you can see the pinout difference in freescale's document.If it does not explain Paul's comment, forget about it and design your board
    I have looked at the datasheet,pinout difference page 184,191,192.
    Not indicate something about these things pins(NC).Can you tell me what page explains their function?

  20. #20
    When I see NC I read it as No Connection. That is a placeholder with no function - in this case - not wired internally?

  21. #21
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    I read it as you but also as don't connect to anything. A minor difference but sometimes if you do because it makes routing easier undefined (mostly bad) things happen.

  22. #22
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    Hello again,
    in my test i'll put these crystals:

    crystal 16Mhz +/- 10ppm
    crystal 32.768Khz +/- 10ppm

    i will be okay??

  23. #23
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    These are identical IC die (bare silicon) in two different packages. The packages involve two totally different processes likely designed and built in two different packaging houses. I worked for Motorola when the Freescale spin off happened. At that time we did some packaging in house, and used Amkor for others. Our particular chips (non Freescale) went to Amkor. There have been many changes in the semiconductor world since then.

    The QFP is made by attaching the bare die to a stamped steel lead frame where the frame itself becomes the actual pins on the chip. Then tiny wires are bonded to pads on the die and pads on the lead frame. There is usually a one to one correspondence between the pads on the IC die and pins on the QFP. The IC die layout determines the pinout. Then the frame is overmolded in plastic and the frame sheared off and ends bent (formed) to become the pins.

    The BGA's are made differently, resulting in a different pinout, and sometimes on complex chips, some functions are omitted. These become NC pins, or ground pins. The bare IC die gets "bumped." This process attaches tiny solder balls to the pads on the chip where the bond wires would have gone in the QFP. The bare die is flipped over and soldered directly to a complex multilayer PC board which becomes the base of the chip. The bottom side of this PC board has (144 in this case) gold plated pads which will have solder balls attached in the final assembly step. After die attach, the package gets overmolded in plastic, flipped over and has the balls mounted. The pinout of the final BGA is determined by the routing of the multilayer PCB that becomes the base. This is a tradeoff between ideal pin placement and cost (number of board layers). The constraints are grouping of like functions, power pins and ground (for optimum bypassing) analog VS digital functions (don't put a high speed bus in the middle of your digital pins) and functions that are not often used and can be omitted. The whole thing is usually done by an iterative autorouter that proposes several possible solutions, which wind up being reviewed in several long boring meetings, where everyone argues for what they think is important......I spent too much time in some of those meetings, we did GHz level CMOS RF chips which have their own constraints.

    When I see NC I read it as No Connection. That is a placeholder with no function - in this case - not wired internally?
    This is usually the case. It can be verified by an ohmmeter, but NEVER touch ohmmeter probes directly to the pins of a modern low voltage CMOS IC. Most meters put from 6 to 20 volts (some HP's) out through their test leads in the "OHMS" function. The current is high enough to fry the on chip protection diodes, rendering a pin, and maybe the entire chip useless. Instead put a 100K or higher resistor in series with your leads and use the highest (megohm) range. An NC pin will read "INFINITE" or "OPEN" while ANY reading confirms some connection. When hand soldering an IC with blind connections (like a BGA) put the chips on the board first. Then use this technique to verify that there is some reading from each pin to ground or anywhere else on the board.

    Laying out a PC board of this magnitude requires some experience with high speed digital signals, and PCB layout experience. If you have never done this before, and don't understand terms like "ground bounce" and "crosstalk" you may get a board that appears to work, but randomly resets or generates errors. You may wind up doing the board over a few times, but it will be an educational experience.......frustrating, but educational.

  24. #24
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    Hello again,i made the circuit and just the connect the port usb he shown the message "installed and ready for use".
    The problem is that ι did not take my com port.Why?
    The circuit i made is this



    I have put the crystal crystal 16Mhz +/- 10ppm

    I have not connecting any pin that would have??
    Last edited by thanos; 12-08-2016 at 11:48 AM.

  25. #25
    Senior Member HWGuy's Avatar
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    If the MK66 is similar to the MK20 on Teensy 3.2 then VBAT needs 3.3V.

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