Forum Rule: Always post complete source code & details to reproduce any issue!
Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2 3 4 5 LastLast
Results 76 to 100 of 109

Thread: Any Plans for a Teensy Board with Bottom Pads on Top?

  1. #76
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    1,818
    @Paul, thanks for sharing your past experiences, it helps with understanding the practicalities of getting a new product out the door. Know I don't have experience to be of much real help like @KurtE, @defragster, @tonton81, @Manitou, @FrankB etc., but if you need anyone to try things out I will gladly be a guinea pig. Can't wait for kickstarter - I will be one of the first in line.

    Whatever you decide I know it will be better than anything else out there, like the rest of the Teensies .

  2. #77
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    111
    Paul said:
    So please understand I'm trying to balance openness with the risk of over-inflated expectations of vaporware.
    Too late, the dogs of war are already gathered, :-).

    The trouble with Feather and Arduino-MKR form-factors is they do not have enough I/O pins to even be remotely attractive, although having compatibility with new style mini-shields sounds like a good idea, assuming people start producing lots of different kinds of those shields. I still favor the idea of people on Tindie or OSHPark making various carrier boards specifically for whatever comes off the Teensy press, which I'm sure will happen in any case. I remember there were a slew of pcbs appeared when the T3.6 came out, so it seems to me that Teensy people in general aren't overly enamored of which way Ada and Arduino are going.

    I don't think I ever showed my own personal T3.5,T3.6 carrier board, but here it is. I always use 3-row headers and series-Rs for most I/O pins, onboard voltage dividers on primary ADC channels, and want compatibility with regular Arduino plugin shields, like LCDs, ethernet, etc. And to retain the basic UNO form-factor.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	tweensy36.jpg 
Views:	59 
Size:	94.3 KB 
ID:	12422
    I don't know where I would put 20 more pins that might come with a Teensy 4 (without going to a 4-layer carrier board).
    Last edited by oric_dan; 12-28-2017 at 06:59 PM.

  3. #78
    Member randomvibe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    78
    Quote Originally Posted by PaulStoffregen View Post
    So please understand I'm trying to balance openness with the risk of over-inflated expectations of vaporware.
    Open-ness and mining feedback is excellent business practice. Involving the community in the design is a potential nightmare, so I'm glad you are not completely heading in that direction. You make the best 32-bit module at the best price, I'd like you to succeed.

    Barring my selfish wants for more pins, I think the right choice from a business perspective, in what the majority of customers want, is the Teensy 3.2 form factor. It's really catching on. If a high end option is possible, something like a Teensy 3.6 form factor would be great, but I kind of see that longer is probably not better (breadboard non-friendly). Some smart "pin/pad on top" layout might be better, IMHO.

    Here's an interesting blog from RobotShop:

    https://www.robotshop.com/blog/en/be...ers-2017-21178

    I hope you're working with high schools and maybe colleges to get the Teensy out there as an educational tool. It bugs me that educators use Arduino Unos and Basic Stamps ($49!!!) when the Teensy is the clear cheaper and more powerful alternative.

  4. #79
    Senior Member PaulStoffregen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    18,203
    Quote Originally Posted by KurtE View Post
    Let me know if there is anything I can help with (or any new shiny things )
    You'll certainly be one of the very first to get a beta test board.

    For everyone who's relatively new here, you can't request a beta test board. Sending me an email requesting one will not do you any good. Like we've done for the last few boards, Robin & I will choose the beta testers from the most active & helpful forum users and people who've made substantial code contributions or written important libraries. Beta boards are free and PJRC pays for shipping, but we can't cover any tariff or local tax due at arrival with international packages. We announced beta tests here on the forum, and the main thing we ask of everyone is to keep everything only on the forum and not take photos until the product releases. Anyone offered a board but not watching the forum will miss it.

    Again, I want to emphasize beta testing, not to mention product release, is still a long way off. It may not even begin until sometime in 2019.

  5. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by PaulStoffregen View Post
    The other general idea I'm considering is adopting either Adafruit Feather
    I'm sure you've seen the Feather Wing adapter for Teensy[1]. Even Adafruit know your boards are better than theirs. In my humble opinion: keep doing your thing, it's been consistently better than anything else out there. I'd be astonished if anyone here disagreed.


    [1] https://www.adafruit.com/product/3200

  6. #81
    Member randomvibe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    78
    So the i.MX processor is the next Teensy chip possibly on a 3.2-like and 3.6-like form factor.

    Beyond that, is a Teensy single-board-computer possible on a 3.6-like form factor?
    Last edited by randomvibe; 12-29-2017 at 09:20 AM.

  7. #82
    Senior Member+ defragster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    6,788
    @randomvibe -
    Quote Originally Posted by PaulStoffregen View Post
    ...
    Having just said all this, I will risk mentioning I'm leaning towards two possible paths on the form factor. One way would look like 2 different products, mimicking the Teensy 3.2 form factor as closely as possible with the cost as low as we can manage, with the second higher cost board having a "long" form factor (maybe Teensy 3.6 pinout, maybe longer) and provisions built in for all sorts of I/O.
    ...
    I'd buy both. Keep up the good work Paul. If it runs like the K66 Beta did that would be awesome ... whenever that is.

  8. #83
    Member randomvibe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    78
    Quote Originally Posted by defragster View Post
    If it runs like the K66 Beta did that would be awesome ... whenever that is.
    Not too long hopefully.


    Beyond the Teensy4X, is a Teensy single-board-computer possible on a 3.6-like form factor? An SBC would be the next logical progression after an i.MX processor.

  9. #84
    Senior Member+ Theremingenieur's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Colmar, France
    Posts
    1,792
    I'm not sure if the world needs still one more SBC... isn't there enough demand for improved embedded systems?

  10. #85
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    643
    I guess I can drop my two cents in.

    I actually gave up trying to put the Teensy 3.6 on a breadboard when I saw it, instead I used long pin headers for the outside pins and normal pin headers for the underside, and I invested in a few hundred Dupont wires with different configurations. Of the two 3.6's I have, one is a dedicated spaghetti test unit, the other is still in its packaging, waiting to go into my CC Dummy Load if I ever get to that point. I may also migrate the screen on my GoCart project over to a 3.6 at some point, i'm still trying to figure out what I want to do with the dash.

    I think if you can provide the most flexibility for the most people then you will win. You can have all the fancy bells and whistles at some point you have to say no.

  11. #86
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    299
    Without wishing to make too strong a case, I thought I might just describe my usage of the Teensy 3.2 in a product.

    We required access to more GPIO than what was accessible via the through hole pins headers, and didn't have the space on the PCB to cater for the 'long' form factor used on the larger Teensy boards.
    Instead, we chose to design an adapter board which would add a second row of 2.54mm pins on each side of the 3.2 - with connections made to the bottom pads via 'half-vias'. This provided the advantage of access to these GPIO whilst making the overall size of the Teensy itself only ~5mm wider, in a robust form.

    Of course, this only helps on custom PCBs or stripboard designs - as if placed in a breadboard, the pins would be shorted together. However, I do wonder if there might be a business advantage in providing a particular version of a Teensy board in this type of form factor, specifically aimed at product development or small production runs. I'm conscious though, that PJRC aims to limit the amount of support it can offer to designers implementing the board in commercial designs.

    Just a few cents of my experience working with the boards in a commercial environment.

  12. #87
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    111
    I was just looking at Digikey and they sell a lot Feather "Wings", which are the Ada add-on boards, so it would make sense for Paul to produce a board that can accomodate the Wings. Unfortunately the basic Feather hasn't enough I/O pins to be of great use or interest, but maybe ok for small projects requiring little I/O.
    https://www.digikey.com/products/en?...031d&k=feather

    Rather than produce a Teensy 3.2 or 3.6 in Feather form-factor, it might make more sense to design a small adaptor board that would allow the current T3.2 ot T3.6 modules to plug to a Feather Wing. And this could be done in half a day.

  13. #88
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    1,842
    Quote Originally Posted by oric_dan View Post
    I was just looking at Digikey and they sell a lot Feather "Wings", which are the Ada add-on boards, so it would make sense for Paul to produce a board that can accomodate the Wings. Unfortunately the basic Feather hasn't enough I/O pins to be of great use or interest, but maybe ok for small projects requiring little I/O.
    https://www.digikey.com/products/en?...031d&k=feather

    Rather than produce a Teensy 3.2 or 3.6 in Feather form-factor, it might make more sense to design a small adaptor board that would allow the current T3.2 ot T3.6 modules to plug to a Feather Wing. And this could be done in half a day.
    you mean this?
    https://forum.pjrc.com/threads/48608...l=1#post163404

  14. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by oric_dan View Post
    I was just looking at Digikey and they sell a lot Feather "Wings", which are the Ada add-on boards, so it would make sense for Paul to produce a board that can accomodate the Wings. Unfortunately the basic Feather hasn't enough I/O pins to be of great use or interest, but maybe ok for small projects requiring little I/O.
    https://www.digikey.com/products/en?...031d&k=feather

    Rather than produce a Teensy 3.2 or 3.6 in Feather form-factor, it might make more sense to design a small adaptor board that would allow the current T3.2 ot T3.6 modules to plug to a Feather Wing. And this could be done in half a day.
    Like https://www.adafruit.com/product/3200 mentioned earlier in the thread?

  15. #90
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    111
    Duh, and I saw that thing too, double-Duh! Other than pleading "total stupidity, have mercy", I guess I can say it doesn't look like that Ada adaptor will adapt a T3.6, which could be done with a "single" adaptor board. Eg, my pcb shown in post #77 will mount either T3.2 or T3.6 equally well. See extra set of vertical pads to take the T3.2.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	tweensy36b.jpg 
Views:	37 
Size:	112.4 KB 
ID:	12444
    Last edited by oric_dan; 12-29-2017 at 06:30 PM.

  16. #91
    Only surprise is Adafruit not charging $29.99 for it

  17. #92
    Member randomvibe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    78
    It's odd that Teensy3.6 without headers is more expensive at digikey ($32.50) when it can be purchased at PJRC and Sparkfun for $29.25. At Adafruit it's $29.95. Usually Adafruit has lower prices than Sparkfun. For Amazon Prime members it's $36.95.

  18. #93
    Senior Member+ MichaelMeissner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Ayer Massachussetts
    Posts
    2,775
    Quote Originally Posted by oric_dan View Post
    I was just looking at Digikey and they sell a lot Feather "Wings", which are the Ada add-on boards, so it would make sense for Paul to produce a board that can accomodate the Wings. Unfortunately the basic Feather hasn't enough I/O pins to be of great use or interest, but maybe ok for small projects requiring little I/O.
    https://www.digikey.com/products/en?...031d&k=feather

    Rather than produce a Teensy 3.2 or 3.6 in Feather form-factor, it might make more sense to design a small adaptor board that would allow the current T3.2 ot T3.6 modules to plug to a Feather Wing. And this could be done in half a day.
    Well Adafruit already produces a Teensy 3.2 -> feather adapter:


    If you wanted to do a 3.5/3.6 to feather you could just run wires for the DAC and program pins. Or you could use this board designed by FrankB that translates the 3.5/3.6 DAC into the 3.2 position as well as the program and Vbattery pins. FrankB also brought out Vusb, A10, A11, and AREF to that you could mount the protoshield as well in the middle (the protoshield doesn't have support for the 4 inner pins):


    Now, in terms of the 3.5/3.6 and the feather, you have to decide how you are going to mount it. The way I do it with the 3.2 (having the Teensy slightly above the feather adapter and use stacking headers for the feather pins to allow feather wings with male pins to be mounted) won't work with the 3.5/3.6 since they are longer and it interferes with the lipo JST connection in the back of the feather board.

    BTW, there is just enough room to mount FrankB's board that gives you access to the 3.2 underneath pins on the feather adpater:






    I could imagine mounting the 3.5/3.6 underneath the feather adapter, perhaps using stacking headers on the teensy and male pins on the feather adapter. This has the problem that you can't easily access the reset button, and it may be hard to get the micro-SD card out.

    Alternatively, you could mount the Teensy with normal stacking headers above the feather adapter so it clears the lipo JST connector, and use 2 stacking headers for mounting feather boards, or use male pins on the feather adapter underneath the board, and use the 2x or 3x feature doubler boards to mount the other feather wings.
    Last edited by MichaelMeissner; 12-29-2017 at 09:38 PM.

  19. #94
    Senior Member+ MichaelMeissner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Ayer Massachussetts
    Posts
    2,775
    Quote Originally Posted by oric_dan View Post
    Duh, and I saw that thing too, double-Duh! Other than pleading "total stupidity, have mercy", I guess I can say it doesn't look like that Ada adaptor will adapt a T3.6, which could be done with a "single" adaptor board. Eg, my pcb shown in post #77 will mount either T3.2 or T3.6 equally well. See extra set of vertical pads to take the T3.2.
    Do you sell your carrier board, is it available at a place like OSH park, or can we download the appropriate .STL files?

  20. #95
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    111
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMeissner View Post
    Do you sell your carrier board, is it available at a place like OSH park, or can we download the appropriate .STL files?
    Michael, see the private message. Also, I had once thought about maybe selling them, but actually there was a big gold rush of people producing carrier boards when the T3.5,3.6 came out, and I lost interest. Making $2 profit/board is not very appealing, :-).

  21. #96
    Member randomvibe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    78
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMeissner View Post
    Well Adafruit already produces a Teensy 3.2 -> feather adapter:
    Because they implemented this adapter does not automatically mean its popular and successful. For those customers, why not just go with a Teensy 3.5 or 3.6.

    But the bigger question is what is to stop Adafruit from copying the Teensy/Kinetis system with an Adafruit form factor?

  22. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by randomvibe View Post

    But the bigger question is what is to stop Adafruit from copying the Teensy/Kinetis system with an Adafruit form factor?
    They lack the software polishing skills: the bootloader, the teensy loader app, the well-written and optimized libraries.

    But does it really matter because: it will be more expensive.

  23. #98
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    1,842
    Quote Originally Posted by randomvibe View Post
    But the bigger question is what is to stop Adafruit from copying the Teensy/Kinetis system with an Adafruit form factor?
    Is it not the other way round, they provide an adapter to use their add-ons with he teensy? (original T3.2 but with longer pins would also work with T3.5/6)

  24. #99
    Senior Member+ MichaelMeissner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Ayer Massachussetts
    Posts
    2,775
    Quote Originally Posted by randomvibe View Post
    Because they implemented this adapter does not automatically mean its popular and successful. For those customers, why not just go with a Teensy 3.5 or 3.6.

    But the bigger question is what is to stop Adafruit from copying the Teensy/Kinetis system with an Adafruit form factor?
    The point (for me at least) of the feather adapter is so that I can easily mount the feather wings. This is similar to the classic Arduino shields that I started with. Lets see, the feather wings you can add on include:
    • 128x32 OLED display
    • Neopixel LED matrix
    • Stepper motors with provisions for multiple wings if you need additional motors
    • Servos with provisions for multiple wings
    • Charlieplex LED matrixes
    • GPS
    • Relay switches
    • RFM69/98 radios
    • Music shield
    • Joystick/buttons


    Sure by the time you want to add several devices or use 40 pins the idea breaks down, much like the Arduino shields did, but for many tasks, you want something convenient to add. It is also a least common denominator approach, where you have one serial UART (no RTS/CTS), one SPI and a couple of CS pinsl, one I2C port, a few analog input pins (unless you use a ESP8266 board which only has one analog pin), a few PWM pins. But for causal programmers it can be helpful to provide those pinouts in specified locations.

    I find for the 3.2, I often stack the prop shiel and the feather adapter together. Typically I have the male pins on the Teensy underneath that can be mounted on breadboards and stacking headers for the prop shield if I wanted to attach one of the feather wings.

    Also, the feather wing gives me a JST connector for lipo batteries that will charge the battery if I power the Teensy with USB, and power the Teensy with the battery if USB is disconnected. I only wish there was an on/off switch similar to the Onehorse adapter.
    Last edited by MichaelMeissner; 12-30-2017 at 12:08 PM.

  25. #100
    Senior Member PaulStoffregen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    18,203
    Quote Originally Posted by alialiali View Post
    They lack the software polishing skills: the bootloader, the teensy loader app, the well-written and optimized libraries
    I'm pretty sure Adafruit could make a Teensy clone or work-alike product if they really wanted. Limor has the hardware skill and Kevin & Phil B have the software talent needed. Tony & Scott (in Seattle) are also very capable programmers, as anyone can see by the results with their fork of Python.

    Ethics and good business sense, rather than technical chops, are mainly what's stopping them from doing anything like this. First and foremost, Limor and Phil T are good people. They also have a very successful business model, which involves higher profit margin than Teensy, and a very different sales focus on novices and casual users, rather than the more advanced but relatively small ground of people best described as having "outgrown Arduino" and needing more powerful hardware & libraries.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •