PJRC and Teensy(s) need a Wiki
- Thread starter defragster
- Start date
I found latex not dodgy at all with mediawiki its just a pain in the ass to setup, but once you have it installed rendering equestions is not that bad at all and much more visually appealing. But that would probably be small part of the content anyway so even it was not installed it would probably make little difference.
defragster
Senior Member+
This is good news - with the time spent replacing a rewrite of the PJRC website effort to a better end.
Not having to deal with SPAM and content hacks is a real concern - I've done some searches and not come across any seemingly useful hits on integration - not being up on unix and packages like this I'm relegated to observing.
I did see that MediaWikia seems to have good formatting and layout examples: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Sites_using_MediaWiki/en
Constantin
Well-known member
I hope that whatever package is out there will integrate with vbulletin AND allow selective access to the WIKI.
Robin and Paul should be the ultimate arbitrators re: who gets to post and who doesn't. But it might be useful to also designate a couple of moderators to do the same so Paul and Robin don't have to deal with that issue.
The forum still gets spammed every once in a while, so preventing spambots going wild in the Wiki with a human line of defense might be the best way to prevent cleanup requirements. Folk who demonstrate good knowledge can thus be let in without requiring a minimum number of posts and so on (which would be a mechanical way to do it, albeit imperfect since some folk might not post a lot but know a lot).
Robin and Paul should be the ultimate arbitrators re: who gets to post and who doesn't. But it might be useful to also designate a couple of moderators to do the same so Paul and Robin don't have to deal with that issue.
The forum still gets spammed every once in a while, so preventing spambots going wild in the Wiki with a human line of defense might be the best way to prevent cleanup requirements. Folk who demonstrate good knowledge can thus be let in without requiring a minimum number of posts and so on (which would be a mechanical way to do it, albeit imperfect since some folk might not post a lot but know a lot).
Robin
Administrator
I did a bit of looking around on the Vault Wiki page and I think it will work well for us. We can use the existing vBulletin user management to grant editorial and moderation privileges. I particularly like the description they have:
VaultWiki allows your existing forum users to work together on creating and managing a site's content pages, rather than competing to make popular threads. VaultWiki is a fully-featured and fully-supported wiki add-on solution for vBulletin and XenForo.
VaultWiki allows your existing forum users to work together on creating and managing a site's content pages, rather than competing to make popular threads. VaultWiki is a fully-featured and fully-supported wiki add-on solution for vBulletin and XenForo.
Robin
Administrator
In the early days we were getting a spam message caught in moderation at about a rate of 1 per minute. I had to through manually delete these posts (at least I could delete them in groups). As part of the clean up I also manually reviewed all the users and ended up deleting over 20,000 suspected spammer accounts. Even though an occasion spam message does get through to the forum, we are not getting near the volume of spammer accounts set up and message caught in moderation. What we have now for ant-spam measures is actually working fairly well. As the one who wields Thor's Hammer against spam, I really like the idea of having something that integrates with vBulletin and I would really hate to have to manage spam for something completely separate.
The mind boggles... seems clear that vBulletin integration (and continuing security updates) is a must-have.
hmmm, edging toward the goal but, have you settled on VaultWiki? Another two or three hours (which I expect I can find today) and I will have tried integrating a test install of MediaWiki 1.25 with a test install of vB 4.2.2 (best set of files for 4.2.2 I could get without paying anybody - never going (actually) public with it, why pay?) but if you guys have already chosen VaultWiki (I'm willing to experiment with free version of VaultWiki if asked, btw) then I can find something else to do (have come down with some kind of flu or something and I feel really super crappy.)
PaulStoffregen
Well-known member
It looks like we're starting to lean towards VaultWiki, but no final decision has been made. MediaWiki also looks promising, since its so widely used and maintained by Wikipedia.
Lets give this a few more days at least. Please, take it easy and rest if you're not feeling well. We've done ok without a wiki for years, so a few extra days is nothing in the grand scheme of things.
Hope you feel better soon.
Lets give this a few more days at least. Please, take it easy and rest if you're not feeling well. We've done ok without a wiki for years, so a few extra days is nothing in the grand scheme of things.
Hope you feel better soon.
PaulStoffregen
Well-known member
If you really want to play with VaultWiki, we can pay for the $10 version. That'd make a lot more sense than wasting time with the free one.
defragster
Senior Member+
Just sorry I took so long to BUG this - Great to see it moving forward - waiting extra days to make it right (and let rob live) is worth it as PJRC will have to live with it or re-write it.
I see Welcome to VaultWiki.org, home of the wiki add-on for vBulletin is
Looking at the feature summary I see things I didn't observe in using Wikimedia - or Wikipedia.
On their page I thought I'd try 'search spam' - I had to play two captcha games to prove I was human'ish - and passed. As guest (?) I had to repeat that on each search. I was not impressed with search results though. Do a search and see what you find - then search for test shown in the results - using 'VW4' or 'PHP' - it seems to not like to find simple things any better than current forum search.
And it really seems to integrate to the forum!
You can make an UGLY wiki: http://www.runicgamesfansite.com/ and a search can ask random questions to verify - I searched for 'RUNE' and saw PAX in the results and then searched that and got : "The following words are either very common, too long, or too short and were not included in your search: pax". So VaultWiki (as I found it) won't solve searching without changing vBulletin.
I played this search from the search results (you know it has the word) game on a website I helped a lady with and it was GREAT - pick a cookie shape, animal, vehicle - find a size in inches (like 2.25, or 4) or most any other (3+ letter) word (egg, cup, tsp) and a search will show it in the results. She gets her site indexed (free) by http://www.master.com - a charge takes their name off the site and supports larger sites - don't know if they can sit on the vBulletin server? <edit: you can search a cutter a8014 but not 8014, but 123 works so it is generally good with numbers>
I found Dokuwiki to have better search.
I see Welcome to VaultWiki.org, home of the wiki add-on for vBulletin is
so they eat their own dogfood.
Looking at the feature summary I see things I didn't observe in using Wikimedia - or Wikipedia.
On their page I thought I'd try 'search spam' - I had to play two captcha games to prove I was human'ish - and passed. As guest (?) I had to repeat that on each search. I was not impressed with search results though. Do a search and see what you find - then search for test shown in the results - using 'VW4' or 'PHP' - it seems to not like to find simple things any better than current forum search.
And it really seems to integrate to the forum!
You can make an UGLY wiki: http://www.runicgamesfansite.com/ and a search can ask random questions to verify - I searched for 'RUNE' and saw PAX in the results and then searched that and got : "The following words are either very common, too long, or too short and were not included in your search: pax". So VaultWiki (as I found it) won't solve searching without changing vBulletin.
I played this search from the search results (you know it has the word) game on a website I helped a lady with and it was GREAT - pick a cookie shape, animal, vehicle - find a size in inches (like 2.25, or 4) or most any other (3+ letter) word (egg, cup, tsp) and a search will show it in the results. She gets her site indexed (free) by http://www.master.com - a charge takes their name off the site and supports larger sites - don't know if they can sit on the vBulletin server? <edit: you can search a cutter a8014 but not 8014, but 123 works so it is generally good with numbers>
I found Dokuwiki to have better search.
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Bit of a preview of some of the PHP and tables involved in this and it doesn't look too nasty, reasonably complex in places, sure wish I wasn't in a cold-sweat with a flaky feeling head but I even more wish I could grab the 'me' from about 8 years ago because I was practising pretty appropriate stuff, to this task, back then a lot.
Can anyone find any better starting point than http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:VBulletin/Users_Integration ? Reasonably well detailed alternatives may be helpful to see to.
Paul, if you can find the time to review the settings (and anything else you feel pertinent) I have chosen in my test installation of vB, please PM or email me for host and access details - probably not, really, but if you think of any important settings relating to user registration which may make a difference as to what is required to integrate then it could be worthwhile.
Also, if you would like a preview of mediawiki 1.25 (including backend as super user, can let you have sudoer access to the VM too if desirable) then very similar host and access details can enable that.
If nobody has to pay $10 just to get as good a preview of Vaultwiki as can be had of mediawiki I will be happier but if you want to preview the paid edition (instead) badly enough to throw $10 at it I will do my best to be as helpful about that as I am trying to be about mediawiki - hopefully the license can be recycled (or similar).
Can anyone find any better starting point than http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:VBulletin/Users_Integration ? Reasonably well detailed alternatives may be helpful to see to.
Paul, if you can find the time to review the settings (and anything else you feel pertinent) I have chosen in my test installation of vB, please PM or email me for host and access details - probably not, really, but if you think of any important settings relating to user registration which may make a difference as to what is required to integrate then it could be worthwhile.
Also, if you would like a preview of mediawiki 1.25 (including backend as super user, can let you have sudoer access to the VM too if desirable) then very similar host and access details can enable that.
If nobody has to pay $10 just to get as good a preview of Vaultwiki as can be had of mediawiki I will be happier but if you want to preview the paid edition (instead) badly enough to throw $10 at it I will do my best to be as helpful about that as I am trying to be about mediawiki - hopefully the license can be recycled (or similar).
PaulStoffregen
Well-known member
I paid $10 just now.
Their download wants me to enter the URL for the forum where it'll be used. Do you want to set up a test forum under a domain name you control? Or would you like me to create a DNS entry like "forumtest.pjrc.com" with your IP number? Either is fine. Just let me know which you'd prefer?
PaulStoffregen
Well-known member
I started a new thread about the search problems.
https://forum.pjrc.com/threads/28849-Forum-search-needs-improvement
Let's discuss the search stuff on that thread, and keep this one focused on wiki setup. Well, except search stuff specific to the wiki.
https://forum.pjrc.com/threads/28849-Forum-search-needs-improvement
Let's discuss the search stuff on that thread, and keep this one focused on wiki setup. Well, except search stuff specific to the wiki.
You can enter wiki.pjrc.com and I can configure the copy of apache in the test server to use that as the host header - no need for DNS entries, people who need/want to see it need only add;
www.xxx.yyy.zzz wiki.pjrc.com
to their hosts file ( %WINDOWS%\System32\Drivers\etc\hosts or /etc/hosts or, if you are running some stranger OS hopefully you know where your hosts file lives; note: www.xxx.yyy.zzz needs to be replaced with an IP address I will only hand out at Paul/PJRC's discretion) and then they can see it without risking accidentally exposing it publicly at all - this is how I prefer to do stuff like this for a variety of reasons, mostly to do with not accidentally showing Google (or similar) anything very broken or daft at a domain name which hopes to have good standing in search engines any time soon.
Also there is the benefit of not having to wait while DNS changes propogate etc etc.
The main reason I suggest you do that is because you have paid the $10 and if you proceed with VaultWiki you can most likely start on this $10 licence and upgrade it when it expires - it is your stuff and I will defer to your wishes to help you check it out, let me know how you want to proceed.
just fyi: the host headers I have deployed so far, on this test server installation, are forum.testing.gnd and wiki.testing.gnd - I can give you the host info so you can test that they behave as if public on a system which has the host info in the local hosts file but there is no way to access them (not even a little bit, won't even leak accidentally) without it.
www.xxx.yyy.zzz wiki.pjrc.com
to their hosts file ( %WINDOWS%\System32\Drivers\etc\hosts or /etc/hosts or, if you are running some stranger OS hopefully you know where your hosts file lives; note: www.xxx.yyy.zzz needs to be replaced with an IP address I will only hand out at Paul/PJRC's discretion) and then they can see it without risking accidentally exposing it publicly at all - this is how I prefer to do stuff like this for a variety of reasons, mostly to do with not accidentally showing Google (or similar) anything very broken or daft at a domain name which hopes to have good standing in search engines any time soon.
Also there is the benefit of not having to wait while DNS changes propogate etc etc.
The main reason I suggest you do that is because you have paid the $10 and if you proceed with VaultWiki you can most likely start on this $10 licence and upgrade it when it expires - it is your stuff and I will defer to your wishes to help you check it out, let me know how you want to proceed.
just fyi: the host headers I have deployed so far, on this test server installation, are forum.testing.gnd and wiki.testing.gnd - I can give you the host info so you can test that they behave as if public on a system which has the host info in the local hosts file but there is no way to access them (not even a little bit, won't even leak accidentally) without it.
defragster
Senior Member+
Indeed given that it seems vBulletin integrates better with Vaultwiki - search would be a problem for both. If Dokuwiki were chosen - from what I've seen then the wiki search would be better, but not help the forum.
d'oh - did not previously notice link to download on that page I last linked above is 'NO LINK'!
Paul, if at all possible please visit the page at http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showpost.php?p=749311&postcount=10 and copy/paste the second set of [code] there to me in a PM or email - it is a 'wheel' I am not immersed in vB's PHP enough to reinvent from scratch; best case scenario (less likely) is that they haven't reinvented the entire 'car' and the wheel won't be too problematic to refit. Worst case (unfortunately more likely) is that they completely reinvented (and obfuscated the hell out of) too much of it.
In other news: Dokuwiki's vBulletin integration may actually be pretty good;
I was just earlier reminded that I agreed to let my sweetheart take me ~1500k away from my beloved technology, this friday, for a few days - back next Tuesday; might gain access there but I lost my laptop to my daughter a while back and this probably means that I have an unwelcome holiday being imposed on me in regards to lots of things I am trying to do atm.
Paul, if at all possible please visit the page at http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showpost.php?p=749311&postcount=10 and copy/paste the second set of [code] there to me in a PM or email - it is a 'wheel' I am not immersed in vB's PHP enough to reinvent from scratch; best case scenario (less likely) is that they haven't reinvented the entire 'car' and the wheel won't be too problematic to refit. Worst case (unfortunately more likely) is that they completely reinvented (and obfuscated the hell out of) too much of it.
In other news: Dokuwiki's vBulletin integration may actually be pretty good;
They've done it in a way that 'gels with me' quickly and easily and it is a pity that it seems the least preferred (by PJRC) wiki installation.the page at www DOT dokuwiki DOT org/plugin:authmysql said:
I was just earlier reminded that I agreed to let my sweetheart take me ~1500k away from my beloved technology, this friday, for a few days - back next Tuesday; might gain access there but I lost my laptop to my daughter a while back and this probably means that I have an unwelcome holiday being imposed on me in regards to lots of things I am trying to do atm.
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defragster
Senior Member+
... created this thread to collect (Paul's) top 100 posts: https://forum.pjrc.com/threads/28866-Wiki-Coming-Please-link-worthy-posts
PaulStoffregen
Well-known member
@Paul: .... all I really want at this point is confirmation that it arrived
Yeah. I'm way behind on emails. Anything that isn't an urgent customer problem, even this wiki stuff, gets delayed. Sorry.
I set up the DNS entries, registered vaultwiki to the name you suggested, and sent you the zip file & license info.
Done.
I'm sending those 2 code parts now.
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Business model wouldn't be as clever if you didn't prioritise customers, don't be sorry for a second. Thanks for capturing that code for me; it is hardly the rudest stuff I ever parsed, a possible wrinkle against using mediawiki may be that it (not the hack/extension but mw itself) has pedantics about usernames that I think might make it reasonably uncomfortable to really proceed with - reasonable chance that I can 'munge' them as suggested in the comments of that code but if this forum will allow somebody to register as Robsoles while I am registered as robsoles then that is potentially going to be very problematic.
I'll try to register as Robsoles using an alternative email address in a while.
(In Linux case matters in the absolute majority of cases (as it should imho) where in Windows case practically only matters in things that can (mostly, at least sort of) be considered secret (MW authors might be windows centric, also imho - just an impression, probably wrong; sure don't mean to offend...)).
@defragster: Good idea but even Paul would probably prefer you did not limit it to only his 'gems' - others have posted gems, hardly me by any means but even you might have posted something more valuable than you think and I am positive others have
I'll try to register as Robsoles using an alternative email address in a while.
(In Linux case matters in the absolute majority of cases (as it should imho) where in Windows case practically only matters in things that can (mostly, at least sort of) be considered secret (MW authors might be windows centric, also imho - just an impression, probably wrong; sure don't mean to offend...)).
@defragster: Good idea but even Paul would probably prefer you did not limit it to only his 'gems' - others have posted gems, hardly me by any means but even you might have posted something more valuable than you think and I am positive others have
defragster
Senior Member+
@defragster: Good idea but ... - others have posted gems, hardly me by any means but even you might have posted something more valuable than you think and I am positive others have
Thx rob - it occurred to me that it might help the GEMS pop-out. Here I had parenthesis in "collect (Paul's) top 100 posts" for that short post #96 for that very reason - and for the (bug) list I wrote :: "... a post that Paul or someone made that explains or exemplifies ..."
Bottom line is Paul's are definitive, often to a broader point - those are the best wiki fodder. Exception being when it is somebody else's lib - I added ADC as an example. I forgot to add TyQt. Indeed kpc helped me a lot on FFT - but that was over days.
PaulStoffregen
Well-known member
On the matter of wiki software, I'd like to cross DokuWiki and all other non-mysql backed software off the list. I know that probably sounds very arbitrary, but after considering this for a few days, our current approach to backup and management is based on mysqldump, and if we ever need to scale up to more powerful servers, having all data in mysql gives us a well established path.
I'd also like to discuss editing and policies, but I think that might be best as a new thread....
Edit: wiki editing thread here: https://forum.pjrc.com/threads/28868-Wiki-Editors-and-Policies
I'd also like to discuss editing and policies, but I think that might be best as a new thread....
Edit: wiki editing thread here: https://forum.pjrc.com/threads/28868-Wiki-Editors-and-Policies
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